SerreChe 2 Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 The effect of humans on the environment in places where you would least expect it. http://www.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/DESTINATIONS/06/16/alaska.reut/index.html In a slightly similar vein (although different), it is also my understanding that everest has turned into a giant rubbish dump. It is very sad to see that people that are supposed to be moutain lovers are actually so in love with themselves and their own ego that they would be willing to do anything to summit except clean their own s... (to be taken at both degrees) behind them. where will we have to go next to find a pristine place to climb? Fuji? Sorry wrong example... Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I don't understand people dropping litter. Slightly off topic I suppose, but it annoys me no end because it is one thing that spoils lots of places in England....... idiots just dropping stuff and making the place look a mess. It's just such a brainless thing to do. Link to post Share on other sites
Oyuki kigan 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 People have to restrain me if i see someone flick a cigarette butt at a ski hill. That is one of my all-time pet peeves. I have mellowed out a bit, and instead of mounting them in full snowboard regailia and forcibly re-insering the discarded butt into any available orifice while verbally assaulting their questionable upbringing, I now plan to carry a bunch of portable foil ashtray-pockets and hand them out to the offending party. Litter in general pissses me off, and i however hard i try, i still can't manage to comprehend how someone feels justified to leave their shit in an area everyone has to share. Link to post Share on other sites
dale#1 1 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Simple explanation - just stupidity. Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I think this is getting away from what the article is about. Yes litter is bad. That's obvious. The problem is how to deal with the waste creasted by people in the mountains. Some Japanese Huts in the North Alps fly their waste out which is very expensive. Some huts use septic tanks which eventually filter out the bad stuff. The article is talking about high camp on Denali though which at 5200 metres might be to high for a helicopter to lift piles of poo out. Should they pack it out? Maybe. Not something I'd like to do. A problem that has to be dealt with in very popular places. Link to post Share on other sites
SerreChe 2 Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 Both issues are interesting and important and somewhat relating. One is about discarding butts while the other one is about discharging butts... hmmmm, a bit of a heavy one, sorry. Yeah, not sure about the poo in the can thingy. Not sure how big that can is. Sounds a bit crazy to have to airlift poo away from the moutain... That's some expensive poo. Cigarette butts drive me nuts as well, not just on the slopes. What also irritates me is that a lot of these cig companies advertise the pleasure of smoking in a pristine environment (ie the cowboy smoking high up in some pristine moutains while ridding his horse). As if they were pushing people to discard their butts in pristine environments. The reason it was pristine is because nobody had time to discard their butt there yet. I respect people's choice to smoke, I just wished those cig cies would also educate people about smoking etiquette and not flicking it away. As for the poo problem, I have found the solution: Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Car adverts are the same though. Just you and the open road. Which of course you're not polluting. As aren't self-confessed nature enthusiasts who fly to Himalayas. The poo on the mountain is a tricky one since most microorganisms will be inactive at those temps. Either you crap in a can and carry it down or eat a load of cheese before your trip. Perhaps the sage in our midst could recommend a good bung-inducing variety. Otherwise its It's killer that one. Link to post Share on other sites
nagoid 4 Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 A smoking colleague of mine tells me that dropping cigarette butts is fine as they "decompose and disappear". ! Link to post Share on other sites
ShinyDiscoBall 2 Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Found this: Q How about solid waste? A There are different methods of disposing of solid human waste. And, in some areas, there are restrictions governing the disposal. For example, on a river trip through a popular spot like the Grand Canyon or Canyonlands, you’ll be required to carry along a special bucket or porta-potty to use while on the river, then dispose of properly afterwards in a disposal site. If you’re traveling with an outfitter, he will take care of supplying the equipment and then disposing of your group’s deposits. If traveling alone, the onus is on you. If you’re climbing high, glaciated mountains, the common practice is to make a common privy by digging a hole in the ice and lining it with a plastic trash bag, then jettisoning full bags into a crevasse. In the wilderness, the accepted procedure is to carry a small trowel with you so that you can dig a hole. We’re not talking a big hole, just about six or eight inches, where the most effective enzymes for breaking down excrement exist. It’s important to pick a spot where your feces will not become washed into any waterway. The best soils are dry to somewhat moist, preferably with some natural debris covering it (leaves, twigs). Take a stick with you and stir the excrement to mix it with particles of soil before you bury it. This will speed up the process of decomposition. Link to post Share on other sites
sakebomb 0 Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Quote: A smoking colleague of mine tells me that dropping cigarette butts is fine as they "decompose and disappear". His ignorance is worthy of a beating - some people are just plain stupid, I was so pissed when I saw that!! Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Just like styrafoam Link to post Share on other sites
SerreChe 2 Posted June 23, 2005 Author Share Posted June 23, 2005 Good point Mr. W, I had never thought of that regarding car ads. Well at least once the car is gone, hopefully so are the fumes. A cigy butt does not dissipate unfortunately. Mr Disco, very interesting. I was aware of what you mentionned except for the practice of throwing plastic bags full of the stuff down crevasses. Another good reason not to fall into one! About the stirring, I wonder if that is where the expression comes from (stirring ....). Amazing how unaware some people can be! Can we have that guy's name and address so that we can all take turns lashing him with a whip in order to sort him out? Link to post Share on other sites
spook 0 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Litter drives me absolutely bananas. So much so that I normally go out of my way and pick up the odd bit here and there and put it in a bin. Living in London I’m amazed and the amount of rubbish that people just blatantly chuck onto the streets – people walk out of maccas, unwrap their burger and just throw the paper on the ground. I find really offensive, and I’ve started calling people up on it, in some sort of campaign to publicly shame people into putting their rubbish in the bin. All that’s gonna stop now though, cos on the bus the other morning I asked some kid to stop throwing his crap all over the floor and he just erupted into this insane macho-gansta tirade of how I had no respect for him and how he was gonna f*ck me up. I dealt with this for about 20mins while everyone else on the bus moved to the front. So now I figure, hell, if you all want to live in each other’s crap and no-ones gonna back me up, well bugger it. I know London is totally different to a pristine mountain, but it still baffles me that people just dump their crap on the streets. And now I’m to scared/past caring to be bothered by it. Link to post Share on other sites
js 0 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Hey Spook, keep giving it to them and don't give up! Years ago I was on a train that had several people on it. Some juvenile menace was sitting two rows in front stabbing the upholstery with a small knife. The seat between us was filled by a bloke who was a bit tanked-up on juice. Well, this bloke noticed the twenty-something dude doing his best to f-up State property and leant across and whacked the little prick fair across the head telling him to stop it or he'd really get serious. Well, the 'kid' just about filled his shoes with the proverbial and shrunk to the size of a gnome. Keep the fight going I say - and keep the bastards honest!! Link to post Share on other sites
spook 0 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Yeah SubZero, I’ve resolved to just call people up on littering if they look like otherwise normal members of society. The 16 year old hip-hop kids who live in my area I might just leave em be. They’re at that age when they have zero respect for anyone/anything and a real thug mentality, and I want nothing to do with it. I’m not so worried about myself, but I am worried about my van, or my house getting trashed or them starting something up with my girlfriend, as we live in a kind of rough area. I don’t enjoy conflict and I’m only in London for 6 more months so its not worth getting my knickers into a twist over… if these kids are happy to trash their suburb then I’m just gonna leave em to it. It’s a big city after all, and me complaining about litter is hardly gonna magically transform Brixton into a lovely lush suburb. Link to post Share on other sites
sanjo 2 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Don't give up dude. I thought London had cleaned up its act a bit in recent years. Sad to hear it hasn't. Link to post Share on other sites
cheeseman 1 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Quote: bung-inducing? Interestingly enough, cheeses have never had that effect on me. So I can't really comment on that one. Although it may be a good idea to avoid "cottage cheese" I thought people would take some cheeses up on the mountains with them simply because they were delicious and nutritious. And not only that! Fun for all as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Plucky 0 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 One of my good friends from high school taught me the ways of the mountains. He even recommended a book called "How to Shit in the Woods." We lived together in college for a brief while. Anyway, he had just gotten done cooking 4 lbs of refried beans, and then proceded to share with us how he planned to crap on Denali. He had been guiding on Rainier for 2 seasons, and was good enough to be promoted to a Denali guide, I guess, for these reasons. The 'blue bag'. All climbers should know what this is. John, at 6'6" (the center on our high school basketball team), demonstrated exactly how to pull the blue bag move while on skis and in crampons - in our living room. Don't worry - this was a demonstration, not a full-on dress rehearsal. It was funny as hell, but taught me a lot. I used the technique many times while I was on the Juneau Icefield. Pooping and packing may sound disgusting. It's not hard though. BUT, when you're at 16,000 feet, no matter where you are in the world, your thoughts for others, including ma nature, blow through the door (or tarp shelter). Some good stuff has been done on Ranier and Hood and also Everest. Denali is just now confronting this. I've got a good feeling climbers will see the issue and take a stand. Link to post Share on other sites
cal 6 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 I found that book on Amazon Plucky! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0...5515177-4799926 Also found "How to Have Sex in the Woods by LUANN COLOMBO" but I'm sure I don't need to be taught that! Link to post Share on other sites
Plucky 0 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Quote: Originally posted by cal: I found that book on Amazon Plucky! Also found "How to Have Sex in the Woods by LUANN COLOMBO" but I'm sure I don't need to be taught that! It's on my bookshelf right now! Funny how there is a 'second edition revised.' What, it turns out you need to poo 100 feet from a stream instead of 75? Most climbers are pretty environmentally conscious these days. I have all faith that this problem will be remedied. I met a few Japanese climbers/bc skiers at Hachimantai (I think they are kind of famous in Japan) and they were all over the enviro mountain movement - no smoke butts on the slopes, leave no trace (an American ideal), pack out what you pack in..... It was refreshing, considering some of the trash I've seen at resorts in the US, Japan and Canada. (I wish Japanese surfers would take the same stand...... pussies) How to have sex in the woods? A book on this? Must be targetted towards you city slickers Pick it up for a laugh and some good info Link to post Share on other sites
veronica 2 Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I thought that was a joke abou the book in your first thread Plucky! Obviously not! I've heard a few bad things about litter in general in England. Why is that, any background as to why there is such a problem with it over there? Link to post Share on other sites
kaiser soce 0 Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Quote: Originally posted by spook: Yeah SubZero, I’ve resolved to just call people up on littering if they look like otherwise normal members of society. The 16 year old hip-hop kids who live in my area I might just leave em be. They’re at that age when they have zero respect for anyone/anything and a real thug mentality, and I want nothing to do with it. I’m not so worried about myself, but I am worried about my van, or my house getting trashed or them starting something up with my girlfriend, as we live in a kind of rough area. I don’t enjoy conflict and I’m only in London for 6 more months so its not worth getting my knickers into a twist over… if these kids are happy to trash their suburb then I’m just gonna leave em to it. It’s a big city after all, and me complaining about litter is hardly gonna magically transform Brixton into a lovely lush suburb. Brixton you say???............mmmm yeah best not fuk with those kids me thinks! Link to post Share on other sites
Plucky 0 Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Quote: Originally posted by veronica: I thought that was a joke abou the book in your first thread Plucky! Obviously not! However weird my first post in this thread seems, it is all true! We also had a kegarator (A 'fridge with 3 beer taps coming out the front) fully loaded at all times in the living room. This probably helped greatly with John's poo demonstration Link to post Share on other sites
HoTRoD 2 Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 3 taps are needed for sure, one is not enough I remember seeing that book once in a shop and taking a quick flick through. Amazing how there's enough material for a book to be made on the subject. Link to post Share on other sites
js 0 Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 Quote: Originally posted by HoRoTD: Amazing how there's enough material for a book to be made on the subject. Well, the author needed to supply the reader with enough paper, didn't they. Bit of a design fault though - they forgot to perforate the pages for effective field use! Link to post Share on other sites
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