enderzero 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 I thought it was unneccesary that the thread by Big Kahuna was closed, so I started a new thread about my thoughts. It was subsequently moved and closed. Apparently that is not something we, as forum users, are allowed to talk about. Why is it that we cannot have an open discussion about the over moderation of the forum? I have been using this forum for a while now, I have posted 100s and 100s of times and have never had a post deleted or been reprimanded. I believe most of what I add to this forum is positive. I think my opinion on how this forum operates is valid. And most importantly, I think I should be able to discuss it with other forum members on the forum. So what's going on here? All of the sudden we have heavy handed tactics being employed by the moderators. One of the main forum members is removing himself from discussion for the time being. And then this seemingly economic decision to cancel the planned event - transparently disguised as a "lack of planning." (I realize this is another topic and have given my opinion on that in the appropriate place). Is this place falling apart? I have chosen to post this as a thread instead of emailing editor@snowjapan.com because I would like to give other people the opportunity to read and comment as well. Maybe I am off base and some of my fellow forum members will set me staright. I hope you don't see it as disrespectful I did not email this to you. I can wait the extra few hours for you to read it. If you like I can stick it in an email as well. As for moving my thread from On Topic to Off Topic - fine. But this must be the first time you have done that since you created the new forum. Why single my thread out? I have seen plenty (and commented on a few) threads that weren't on topic in the "On Topic" forum. Also, to set the record straight, I was not commenting on any posts being deleted. I realize it is the job of the moderator to remove offensive post. All I was saying was I didn't think the thread should have been closed. I sincerely hope this thread isn't deleted or closed. I like this forum. It is partly responsible for me coming to Japan and completely responsible for almost everyone I know here. I have spent countless hours in the last 9 months here and have always enjoyed my time. This said, if you ask me to leave, I will. Link to post Share on other sites
MistaSparkle 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 While I'm a relatively new poster here.... I must say an admin can make or break a forum. Link to post Share on other sites
rajeem 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Sorry, but you sound like a fool with too much time on your hands. Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan#Andrew 6 Posted March 6, 2003 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted March 6, 2003 Quote: So what's going on here? All of the sudden we have heavy handed tactics being employed by the moderators. One of the main forum members is removing himself from discussion for the time being. And then this seemingly economic decision to cancel the planned event - transparently disguised as a "lack of planning." (I realize this is another topic and have given my opinion on that in the appropriate place). Is this place falling apart? enderzero, What's going on? Nothing, actually. Nothing has changed here in the last week or weeks or months...! We've explained why the handful of offensive posts were taken out already in another thread, and will not be going into that discussion again: http://www.skijapanguide.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000862 Also explained the "economic decision" decision for us to cancel the Snowball event: http://www.skijapanguide.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003738 Quote: Is this place falling apart? Er, no. Not at all. Why?? That does sound rather dramatic, but nothing is happening here.... Quote: This said, if you ask me to leave, I will. No, we won't be doing that, and do not hope that you leave. There is no reason why we would want that. However, if you totally disagree with the forums policy here (which has not changed at all), then you are of course free at any time to just not visit them - and we ask that you refrain from scattering the forums full of threads such as this. OK, we will leave this thread open - but before people come back to us with "heavy-handed" moderator remarks, please remember that.... ---A total of 6 posts (out of many thousands) have been deleted since the beginning of 2003. All were offensive and out to cause trouble. ---Only a small handful of threads have been closed since November 2002. Link to post Share on other sites
klingon 10 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Well, enderzero, you have lost any respect I might have had for you. Are you just trying to cause a friction here or something? Too much free time or something? Quote: One of the main forum members is removing himself from discussion for the time being. As for the above, if you are meaning db, if you read the thread you will see that his "withdrawl" had nothing to do with so-called 'heavy handed moderation' - he was fed up with another member in that thread if I remember correctly. And I think I do. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 ender, I've enjoyed your posts ever since you came here and they've always seemed very well considered. These last few don't seem to be so though. Indeed, considering that this is a totally free service and pretty good one, I don't think it's right to complain so hard about it as you are now. Personally I get very annoyed by people posting rubbish on here when they're drunk, posting nothing but ad hominem attacks, sometimes subtly sometimes not, or grandstanding about things not remotely relevant to snow. A certain amount of it I can stand, but in the few instances when stuff has got deleted, I've usually got to the point where I think "About time too." These instances have (inevitably!) involved my posts and threads. But even in those cases, I have been informed by email by one or other moderator, and it hasn't been heavy handed. Other threads have been moved too, and I'm sure you'll admit that this sort of thing clearly has nothing to do with snow. So why don't you cool it a bit, and take another look. And while you're at it, tell that pillock db to get back in here and post some more of his righteous stuff! (I reckon he was just alarmed at how much time he was spending and wanted any excuse... ) Link to post Share on other sites
rachael 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Sorry, but I think posters like you might be drive people away, enderzero. Link to post Share on other sites
DumbStick 13 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 ender, I've got to agree your posts today are out of line. You need to calm down, man, and just realise what a lucky boy you really are. Quote: Is this place falling apart? Quite the opposite, from wherever you look. Have you seen other forums??? Obviously not. Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 That post at the top of the page shocked me. I could not believe that a user of this forum was dissing it so much. I don't use hundreds of forums on the internet - mainly because mostly they are utter drivel - but from what I have seen this is the best forum that I know. On the internet. Honest. And one of the reasons is because it isn't full of drivel. I'm not even in Japan, just dreaming about Japan. I think the community thing going on here is for the most part, amazing. I really think your post is way out of line, and you're just posting to cause a fuss. And surely you owe these guys an apology. To the SJ forum people whoever you are - deleting 6 posts in 3 months, closing a handful of threads in 5 months? That sounds way opposite to heavy handed to me. Keep up the good work, your site is a gem. BagOfCrisps Link to post Share on other sites
enderzero 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Author Share Posted March 6, 2003 To SJ - I just want to say thanks for responding so quickly. I really appreciate you leaving the thread open. I was just upset that my thread was closed with no direct response - and that it was about closing threads. From the responses I have seen so far "maybe I am off base." I guess I just felt that all of the sudden things felt really different on here - coming back to db's absense (along with some other regulars being really quiet) and other stuff going on. I guess that is really just the nature of forums though. But anyway, I totally don't mean to bring this up to "drive people away" or lose people's respect. I guess the title of this thread is a little strong. But thanks for the criticism. As normal Ocean makes a good point about annoying posters. I was really getting at the closing more than the deleting. BTW - Rajeem - I have waaay too much time on my hands. I live in Nagano Link to post Share on other sites
brit-gob 9 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Way out of line, man. What made you write THAT? Link to post Share on other sites
S(in)ister 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 enderzero...... what? Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan#Andrew 6 Posted March 6, 2003 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted March 6, 2003 OK. As we said, nothing has changed here. Link to post Share on other sites
OzOzOz 2 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Perhaps you should change the title of the thread then. And offer a sorry, perhaps. A hugely overblown piece of theatrics there - don't you think? Are you an actor?!? Link to post Share on other sites
viv&kev 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Why so confrontational? You make it sound as though you pay high premiums to use this (excellent) service or something? The fact is, SnowJapan owns this forum and they can do what they want with it if they want. The fact that they don't, and that they most definitely are NOT heavy handed, speaks volumes. (Sometimes I wish more posts were taken off...) A rethinking is perhaps necessary. (By you, not the forum people) Link to post Share on other sites
2pints-mate 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 BoC told me about this and I must chip in. I don't read this place half as much as he does (I'm busier at work!), but what he says is true. If I were a moderator on a forum, I would have whipped you off right away with a post like that. It's not as if some huge crime was committed - look at the facts! I'd rather the forum people not have to respond to guff like this and get on with running the site and making that better. I'm bias, because I want the site to be as good as possible before our visit to Japan next year Link to post Share on other sites
scoobydoo 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Apart from the fact that I too think you are way over the top here and pretty insulting to SJ (your right of course if you want to be - totally unfounded I reckon), the moderators on here have the right to delete, close or move any topics that they want to, surely. And if we don't agree with that, then tough. And it seems they do very almost none of that -even with the high traffic on here. Quote: Is this place falling apart? Sure it's not you who's falling apart? What's your problem? Link to post Share on other sites
enderzero 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Author Share Posted March 6, 2003 Okay, the masses have spoken. So what do you suggest I change the topic name to: - Is it cool to close posts - My rant on why it feels different - Come in here to rip on enderzero - Rusutsu - Sorry guys, it was a hard day in the powder - I am a jaded f%$# and things aren't fair - Hey, I pay good money for this...err - When Forum Members Attack (part 4) - Hey, where's db? - This weekend's football match Again, thanks for the input. I guess it was off base. Is it too late to ask this thread be closed? Link to post Share on other sites
scoobydoo 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 How about "Sorry" Link to post Share on other sites
yodel 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Got to join in here. enderzero, give it a rest will you. Apart from being soooo unimportant (what WERE you on when you wrote that?), you just come across as someone who is trying to create a fuss over absolutely nothing. And it comes across as really arrogant and frankly childish. So what if one or two threads are deleted or closed - its not as if there is lots of it going on. A handful in 4 months?? Give it a rest. Link to post Share on other sites
Markie 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Please don't use "Rusutsu", that's my thread! (and Sunrise also has a minority share) Link to post Share on other sites
proudtobegay 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Shakes head. Not cool, in the least. This character needs to chill out. Link to post Share on other sites
slimeypete 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 I don't know you enderzero (or anyone else on here), but I'm not sure if I would want to. Do you have an amazingly short temper? It seems a little strange that you should turn on the site and throw accusations and abuse at them for doing what? closing a thread? You must shock easy or like some other people said, just want to cause some trouble and 'excitement' on here. Doesn't seem right to me. Forums full of drivel and confrontational posts like yours would possibly drive me away from a forum, not a very lighthanded moderated one. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by rachael: Sorry, but I think posters like you might be drive people away, enderzero. well, I am not 'people' and it is posters like enderzero that made my experience here even more fun and in fact bought me back. After completing a years worth of work in the last few days I took a look at the forum tonight. I, like enderzero and like 99% of other posters admire this forum (and the site as a whole). The forum is beyond first class. I attribute this quality to the quality of people. The SJ forum has as 'clients' a very niche group. we share a common interest with passion, we are generally 'aliens in a funny land', we like to learn and laugh as the reason we are in a foriegn land is to live the experience (teach english, expat suit, full time snow freak, long term resident family man etc etc). As a general rule, this demographic is well populated with witty, curious and well balanced people with a very 'alive' outlook on life. People like that are not 'forum wreckers'. That is why this forum is a success. with all due respect to SJ.com people, the forums health is largely independent of there efforts as moderators. Forum wreckers don't last here as they feel out of place due to the members. We owe SJ.com thanks for providing the infrastructure, but it is us that have made this what it is, not them. That was not meant to be disrespectful sentiment towards SJ.com, and nor is this: SJ.com is free..... for a reason. It is obviously part of a business plan and enhances related business flow. Perhaps it will even be sold one day, and good on them - they have a savvy product. Now, don't get in a huff when I say this: the forum members don't owe anything beyond 'thanks for the infrastructure' to SJ.com. we make this place what it is with very little intervention from SJ.com. This is why I turn in my seat a little when I read posts that all but cry heresy when someone like enderzero has the so called gaul to not hail SJ.com all the time. I don't suggest that SJ.com demand this worship, but I do suggest that the servility in many members is a little to sticky. I recall once some time ago that Barok had the so called disrespect to question the quality of Now! reports. I actually agreed with him to some degree. There is still one venue that says 'today was cloudy and warm' when the facts are 'today it rained'. The unpaid contributors to the Now! reports offer a service, it is free. But this does not mean that one can't comment on the service accuracy (which has improved greatly as teh season proper kicked in). The same applies to critical feedback on the forum in general. It is not well received when posted rather than emailed and it draws attack from other serf-like members. Not all attack is from the serf-like (oceans opinion above was not serf like, but Rajeems and others were, klingon for example). enderzeros post surprised me, but I have to agree after reading some of the things that have gone on while I have been switched off do seem out of character. I say that there has been a shift in tone and mood of the forum. There is a very subtle air of 'SJ.com are our masters'. This is a two way arrangement here, it is a symbiotic relationship. Don't forget that. We are pawns in SJ.com's success, and we are winners from their success. No one commented very heavily when other members cycled between semi-contributors of value and down right detractors of value via aggro posts. If you want to protect what you have in this forum the try telling these guys to stick it when they carry on. Don't attack a member like enderzero for recognizing his right to say 'hey SJ guys, I am a notional share holder in this concern and I have concerns etc etc'. regardless of whether you agree or not with enderzero, I think you should perhaps see that he has stood up to state his case in an un-offensive manner having recognised that he has the right and the power to do so. Regardless of whether his comments were misguided or not he has Asserted himself in such a way that slightly reveals that this is a two way deal. This assertion is not well received by SJ (although this time they did take it well) and it is certainly not well received or understood by the scared forum mice. I suppose now I will be accused of not appreciating the SJ.com peoples efforts. If so, you have not understood what I have said and what is happening here. If SJ.com were the government in this analogy then I would say ‘don’t forget who put them there’. But that would be a bad analogy. A better one is that they are business partners. They need us, and we need them. Lets all make an effort to keep this thread open – no abuse, no aggro, no offensive posts. As ideologically corny as it may sound, let it stand as a testament to the fact that both sides of the equation respect and understand the other sides value. Db Ps – you may take all of this with a grain of salt, after all I believe that I have posted 2 and perhaps 3 of the posts that have been deleted so far this year. pps (or that pss?) - I think an interesting off-snow-topic discussion would be why we feel this forum is so much better than any other on the net. I certainly believe this to be true and started to scratch the surface several pages above. Link to post Share on other sites
mikazooki 0 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 hey ender, let me send out a "there there" i dont agree with u on the SJ thing. but i dont feel as strongly as everyone else. i was a bit shaken by the db 'loss' and agree that forum felt (to me) 'a bit different' lets leave all the badness behind and sing... don worry, bout a thing, cos every little things gonna be alright Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts