Hakuba/Nagano benefit from the Olympics?

[Kumapix 0]

I think it's the cost factor. You have to groom a pipe everyday. I think there was a boom in pipe (and park) and lots of resorts felt they needed them to compete. I would guess that Happo felt now that people would come regardless of having a pipe or not. Places like Kanbayashi just have a pipe so they would only draw locals who want to ride pipe only. Most people go with friends who want to freeride or ride park or do a bit of everything and Kanbayashi cannot cater to that

[Kumapix 0]

After thinking about this a little, I think that in the park/pipe boom lots of resorts just threw together some jibs and called it a park; dug a ditch in the ground and called it a pipe. Some places only groomed once a week, other places were hand made icy death traps. I guess the market is settling and places who have good parks are drawing the park crowd, and places who did a half-assed job are giving up. Not saying the happo pipe was bad though ( I never rode it). I bet happo wasn't drawing many park rats because of 47 anyways

[KRUSTY 2]

This topic brings back a few memories. I use to groom the run next to the halfpipe at Happo a few years back. There was talk then of closing it because management considered it too big for the average boarder/skier and were thinking about building a smaller pipe to encourage more of the average skilled riders to use it. But Ive been told a couple of years back that area of Happo(Nakiyama) was sold so I guess the new owners condidered the costs of maintaining the pipe too high. A bit of a shame because it was a good pipe when it was cut properly. And now it doesnt really suprise me that Kanbayashi is closing down. When I first arrived in Japan in 1994 I worked at Shiga Kogen and if I remember correctly the only places at Shiga Kogen that allowed Snowboarding were Kanbayashi and Shibutoge. Now that most if not all of Shigakogen allows snowboarding(havent been there in a while so I guess boardings allowed everywhere) there are a lot better areas to ride but back in its day Kanbayashi tried its best to offer facilities and a place to ride for snowboarders when other areas wouldnt. A real shame about whats happening to Ski Resorts in Japan but its a slow and painfull death for a lot of them and its not going to get better.

[akafuji 0]

Rag-Doll

 

Late response sorry!

Yes, it is meaning Red Fuji!

[Rag-Doll 0]

Thanks Akafuji!

 

Kuma, thanks also for your answer. Pipes probably do take a bit of work to keep in good shape and there's nothing worse than a icy out of shape pipe. It would be interesting to see the breakdown of where boarders spend most of their time these days. I'm not much of a park rat but the few times I've cruised past them at resorts there is really more than a few dozen riders hanging around. A lot of work for a fairly small number of customers.

[SnowConnection 0]

I am a BC skier who do not have right to comment about Park. I dare say Park needs management. It would be only 40% work to make (incld. maint.) facilities such as jump stages, rails, halfpipes, waveboardes, etc. 20% work is needed to provide auxiliary/temporary facilities/areas for beginners. 20% is required for education/school. 20% is required for promotion (advertising and festivals). If ski companies want to earn money, they must focus on ordinary skiers than expert skiers. That's "Park".

[Rag-Doll 0]

"other places were hand made icy death traps."

 

To be honest, this is my perception of most pipes. I'm cursed with a particularly vivid imagination and so despite the best of intentions when heading towards the pipe, once I’ve dropped in and sliding toward the other wall all I can think of is how high and icy the bloody thing is and how much it is going to hurt when I land on my back on the lip of the pipe before spearing head first and backwards back into the pipe. Rails give me the heebie geebies too.

[AK 77 0]

every time i've seen a good pipe in Japan (admittedly not been to that many resorts) it has been busy - like queues at least 10 deep on either side.

 

Park still seems to be where it's at for most young Japanese snowbaorders (look at magazines, videos, what type of boards and equipment dominate sales = fs) - what puts them off seems to be the lack of well maintained, parks big enough to give them enough laps without having to queue for all the jumps - then they go off to ride around 'piste jibbing' (flatland tricks) on their bendy boards...

 

The trends are swinging more towards jumps/rails rather than pipe, but pipe is still popular as far as I can see... do any of you really see empty well shaped pipes??? (tell me! I'll go!)

[AK 77 0]

I think that if a resort went all out and made itself pretty much ALL PARK, it would do well in Hakuba, or any area with good access.

 

Then it could have enough park for there to be room for lots of beginner level jumps and rails, which is a big number of riders, and fun-sized stuff, as well as more world-standard kickers and pipes.

 

Look at the way snowpark has boomed in NZ.

Nowhere seems to have more riders who want to learn fs skills than Japan (as a proportion of all snowbaorders) so such a resort would make a killing here...

 

what to any of you think? (people who have worked in the business??)

[Fattwins 0]

i made a long post but my pc crashed.

 

short version

 

parks in japan gifu takasu is the bomb.

 

every resort needs a park it keeps the kids thus the parents happy.

 

well maintained small park is better than a poorly maintained big one.

 

The nakayama side is always groomed better than Saka why krusty

[Kumapix 0]

I see lots of handmade rails (read homemade welding jobs = scary!) and poorly designed jumps (built by the groomer guy and ski patrol). At my local area there's always problems because of the anal management. They'll build an ok big jump but a beginner will try it without enough speed and will hurt themselves on it because the deck is always too long. So what do patrol do? they cut the lip so you get less air. They think less air = less injuries but then you get everybody landing on the deck/knuckle. They are so f****ed! I've stopped and told the patrol that the problem is the jump is too long for the small lip but they just ignore me. So last year there were no jumps or rails, and less customers.

I personally will not touch a homemade rail (rusty, with screws sticking out etc) or a shitty jump, but my jfriends will hit just because it's the only thing there.

So now everybody in Toyama goes to Ushidake because they have a park. Many small resorts don't get the concept that you need to spend money (ie grooming a park) to make money

[oo 1]

They don't have any money to spend, so they can't. Must feel very helpless.

[SnowConnection 0]

When I visited Mt.Hood, Oregon, who had a big halfpipe, I found snowcats were making several small waveboards on a flat top of the other hill. The place had a restaurant, sunny, good sights, and cosy. It might be a kid park, then the waveboards were better moderate for me, a poor skill aged skier. If I'd had no appointment with my friend, I would spend for one hour there. If the place was located at the bottom of a hill near a resort gate, it would not tempt me.

 

I know US/Canada ski industry has different history/situation/circumstance to Japan. But, I suppose there would be many learning points/hints when watching their local operations "carefully" in US/Canada....

[I-Am-Patrol 0]

I think before Olympic people think it will bring long-term good effect but now they know different story.

[Fattwins 0]

They just wasted money period. The IOC is also to blame as it was taking large bribes at the time. Its a contest about who can sepnd the most moeny. At the time of bidding Japan was rich maybe even had more money than the States. That all came crashing down. The wasted money and assets devalued.

[IIIII 2]

Did anyone get busted for being bad after the fact or was it all brushed under the carpet so to speak?

[mattlucas 0]

It all came out during Salt Lake if I remember

[NoFakie 45]

The Nagano Bidding Committee famously incinerated all their accounts as soon as the bid was confirmed.

[scouser 4]

Seriously? I didn't know that. Were there no computers around back then?

[BagOfCrisps 24]

They crashed.

 

 Quote:

The IOC is also to blame as it was taking large bribes at the time

I'd be interested to know more - any juicy details and/or stories.

[frannyo 2]

Me too. I don't remember any of them.

[Fattwins 0]

has japan ever really even now used pcs? its still a paper country

[HighlyTrainedNovaTeacher 2]

Tell me about it. The offices at the place I work look like they are in the 80's or something. 2 of the people still even hitting the keys of old wa-puro machines.

[mattlucas 0]

Salt Lake City

[cal 6]

Cheers for that, interesting