Thundercat 60 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The negativity of this thread is sad. You are allowed to say you dislike something if you dislike and you are allowed to defend something you think is worth defending. Name calling is pretty pathetic. Jynxx, I usually agree with what you say but I don't need reminding of my gaijin status by someone who should know better. BTW, just to add a little piss to the pot I live in a town of about 250,000 people with hundreds of restaurants and the only one I know of that is non-smoking is run by a foreign guy. Go figure. Link to post Share on other sites
boardbaka 3 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 sad thread in general- my only comment Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Originally Posted By: boardbaka sad thread in general- my only comment Started by a bloody pom! What did you expect? Link to post Share on other sites
panhead_pete 27 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Hope you guys all see what I see looking out your window. Stinky and Fishy are going to the peak today. In true Japanese Banzai spirit. "I think Im turning Japanese, think Im turning Japanese, I really think so." "Pretty fly for a white guy". Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 decided to see what thread had the most replies for no real reason (japanese snow one with 6 billion posts by the way). But saw this and thought it was nice for this thread: http://www.snowjapanforums.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/76136/Niseko_Probs.html#Post76136 Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan 178 Posted February 14, 2011 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted February 14, 2011 Probably best to let those sleeping threads keep sleeping....! Link to post Share on other sites
iiyamadude 6 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 To sum things up, PWL, it's probably just best not to say anything against the two big ones, as even the most innocent of light remarks that may cast them in anything but glowing terms don't go down well with the people trying to promote them. It's ok with other places as The Machine isn't geared up the same there. So you are probably safe to mention anything that disappoints you about Shiga Kogen. Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I dont know if this is necessarily a ski thing in truth. I think its a long termer expat versus visitor or fresh off the boater. Ive seen this thread (or a variant of it) on almost every expat forum ive ever been on. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Well there's a few points going on in it now isn't there. But I think the main one is what iiyamadude inferred. It's not long termer expat vs visitor. It's more people with vested business interests vs those with none. The former often find it impossible to take the hat off and are always on message, no matter what. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 PWL, I am sorry that your innocent, honest sharing was met with such a response - I sure hope it doesn't scare you off continuing to share with us. The more people, the more personal variance in discussion, the better. Ski, I reckon it takes a LOT for people to stop 'towing the party line' - I have JUST this week encountered dissension amongst the ranks at the kids school - previously a very strong party line, and I was made to feel stupid for my concerns - however this week I learned of at least two front line staff prepared to cross that line and share the same concerns with me. But for it to get to that point it needs to be an untenable situation for them. I can understand people standing steadfastly behind something they love and work hard on, but I don't think PWL meant any harm, and the reaction was rather OTT. Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 what is the vested interest? Im not having a go, im genuinely curious because being outside of the loop here and unaware of the years of simmering tension on this forum it seems i cant quite detect it. Is it that people with businesses in hakuba feel that it being paraded as a tourist trap will turn people away from coming to hakuba or niseko and they might spill over instead onto other resorts? Chance would honestly be a fine thing. I always think of myoko 2 years ago. I remember my first day coming into suginohara. I remember the houses in the town looking like they were on their last legs. I remember the ride to suginohara on buses that seem a little cramped, empty, and not exactly built to handle people with snow gear (not to mention one bus in, and one bus out all day). Finally, i remember thinking "wait? is this where i should get off? This is the little gondola right, the main gondola station must be further up". Theres something about myoko that felt like it redeveloped in the 80s, never saw a return, ran out of money, and has been sat on borrowed time since then waiting for one serious winter to send it to the depths. I hate bogans. I hate how loud and obnoxious they are. I hate how one dimensional they are. Above all, I hate (and am fantastically jealous) of how young and full of energy they are But i would love for some of them to make the move to myoko and throw some money in that place. Of course, id like them to wait until i won the lottery and could do the same first, but i would love to see that place come to life. It really feels like its living way below its potential and because i absolutely love it (and the area) it breaks my heart to see it kinda empty. Then again, im sure its fine. Its just the impression i got as an outsider of the place Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Originally Posted By: ippy what is the vested interest? Well yes there's a lot of people with businesses (lodges etc) now yes. All with the common aim of promoting the towns of course, but within that jostling for positon. There's a ton of politics as well within those main towns. Luckily people visiting don't get to see that lot and can go on enjoying the place. It's not just a case of this gaijintown issue in this thread, just in general. Just look at all the 'bottomless' talk that has become a bit of a joke the last few years. I think it was in the 'Hakuba sucks' thread on here that started that. Some individuals simply can't take off their marketing hat at the expense sometimes of the reality. They may do it without realising that they are doing it, or maybe not, but they often sound pretty silly with all their slogan-like proclamations. But people none the wiser will be easily taken in. There's a few people on here I really wouldn't believe a word they said when it comes to 'their town'. Not everyone of course. As Mamabear suggested, you probably won't hear that from many people and I'm sure someone might pop up here claiming that it doesn't exist. Link to post Share on other sites
best skier in hakuba 5 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Agree with SKI generally. I know a few long-timers here in Hakuba who basically are considering selling up and moving out, so much is their dislike of the local politics and what the village is becoming. I keep out of it as I don't have to be part of it having nothing to do with the business, but of course hear about tons of stuff going on. Some of it ain't pretty! Being able to be out of all that though means I can still love living here. Originally Posted By: ippy Is it that people with businesses in hakuba feel that it being paraded as a tourist trap will turn people away from coming to hakuba or niseko and they might spill over instead onto other resorts? Interesting one. Not really. Or maybe. Depends, it's a balancing act now isn't it. There's the wish to promote the place as an 'international resort'. But at the same time obviously there's a sensitivity to this 'over-run with gaijin' talk that is increasing, whether some people like that or not. Or even think it or not. It obviously exists. Clearly they want the best of both worlds with all the temple tours, snow monkey tours, 'experience the real Japan', etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Tex 3 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Originally Posted By: ippy Im not having a go, im genuinely curious because being outside of the loop here and unaware of the years of simmering tension on this forum it seems i cant quite detect it. My radar was way off too , but until that previous thread was linked, I lacked some insight. Originally Posted By: best skier in hakuba Originally Posted By: ippy Is it that people with businesses in hakuba feel that it being paraded as a tourist trap will turn people away from coming to hakuba or niseko and they might spill over instead onto other resorts? Interesting one. Not really. Or maybe. Depends, it's a balancing act now isn't it. There's the wish to promote the place as an 'international resort'. But at the same time obviously there's a sensitivity to this 'over-run with gaijin' talk that is increasing, whether some people like that or not. Clearly they want the best of both worlds with all the temple tours, snow monkey tours, 'experience the real Japan', etc. Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 which thread? The hakuba sucks one? dang! time to go thread hunting Link to post Share on other sites
grungy-gonads 54 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I presume he means the one you linked to! Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 ahhhhh! haha! im an eejit Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Just so people know I have no vested interests in Niseko other than I love the place. Sure I work here but I'm on a salary which doesn't vary depending on how busy we are. The area has been my home for the last 7 years and although there's been major changes in that time I love it just as much as ever. I never came here to be the only gaijin in the village or to lose myself in Japanese culture or because I even have any interest whatsoever in Japanese culture, history or it's people. In fact I very much enjoy the foreign community that lives here year round and it's a close knit community that does a lot together socially throughout the year. I don't think I'd want to live in a part of Japan where there are few other foreigners. I love powder snow and this is one of the best regions of the world to enjoy it (and that's the truth not just some marketing spin), that's why I came here initially. I love the easy access to the backcountry and the region in summer is truly amazing and I'm almost liking summer these days more than winter! I love that it's become so successful and that I get to help people have, what they often tell me is the best ski holiday they've ever had. It's quite satisfying being a part of that. I have no problem sharing the mountain with others and I couldn't care less where they come from. I don't get overly concerned about the behaviour of a few. This is a resort where people come to party and have fun, not some temple for deep contemplation of the country and it's culture! And I certainly don't get involved in any of the politics within the town. I came here to have a slower, stress free life and on the whole that's what I've achieved although I work more hours than I'd really like. I do though think it's important to manage peoples expectations who are coming here. This is not some sleepy, backwater resort where you'll be one of the few foreigners who've discovered it's secrets. It's the most popular resort in Japan (by a very long way) with foreign ski tourists. Much of the businesses in town are set up to take advantage of this lucrative market. You will not have a total Japanese experience in Niseko (well in Hirafu at least) but for many of our clientele that's not what they are after. They want a level of service and quality of accommodation that can only really be found in this resort in Japan. And they want the ease of being able to organise everything in English. This resort offers that. I don't overly care what other people think about the resort, it doesn't appeal to everyone but obviously appeals to a broad enough spectrum of the international skiing market to be very successful. I just get annoyed with people who turn up even these days and complain about all the other foreigners! How can people still not know there are lots of foreigners coming here?? Or to Hakuba or a number of other resorts now? Both Niseko and Hakuba are very much on the international skiing markets radar so expect there to be a lot of foreigners at these resorts!! And you Aussies coming here, if you come during the Australian school holidays yes there will be a lot of Aussies here at that time. Surprise, surprise!! Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The surprise suprise, or actually not a surprise at all, is that you still refuse to see the difference in there being a 'lot of foreigners', which I'm sure PWL was even expecting, and a place being 'close to 100% foreginers'. I don't think anyone in this thread said that they expected there not to be foreigners in those two places. No-one. Take a look at what she said. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Originally Posted By: Go Native You will not have a total Japanese experience in Niseko (well in Hirafu at least) but for many of our clientele that's not what they are after. Yes that's right. But the ones that do want that, and there are lots of them, probably lots who have been to Niseko and found that out, are starting to find other places. And it is getting easier to do that of course. And that trend will continue. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Couoldn't care less what she said, I've heard it all a thousand times before. Unlike most on this forum I've worked in the industry for years and discuss these things with people everyday. Same old stuff year after year after year... Same old complaints from those whose expectations are not met due mostly to them not doing enough research. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Originally Posted By: SKI Originally Posted By: Go Native You will not have a total Japanese experience in Niseko (well in Hirafu at least) but for many of our clientele that's not what they are after. Yes that's right. But the ones that do want that, and there are lots of them, probably lots who have been to Niseko and found that out, are starting to find other places. And it is getting easier to do that of course. And that trend will continue. Um that's a good thing isn't? Niseko's success has really helped many other resorts around the country. All good in my book. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Originally Posted By: Go Native Couoldn't care less what she said, I've heard it all a thousand times before. Unlike most on this forum I've worked in the industry for years and discuss these things with people everyday. Same old stuff year after year after year... Same old complaints from those whose expectations are not met due mostly to them not doing enough research. You seem to have so much lingering contempt for your customers. I wonder if you are as unlikable in real life as the character your portray in your posts. Yeah I know, you couldn't care less. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I wonder if I could care less what you think of me? Link to post Share on other sites
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