gerard 6 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 I like the peak bowl. It's plenty steep but not steep enough to have to worry about speed control so you can just let 'er rip It's just like sitting on the beach except way, WAY better. I don't think I've ever seen it that clear. Looks steeper in the picture than it feels when you're on it. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 I've not explored Hanazono at all thoroughly. Does anyone know if there is an onsen there? Or a source that a new hotel can plunder. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Much like the oil rich countries, start digging anywhere and you'll hit some geothermal. Link to post Share on other sites
bellavista 0 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Creek Boy and Go Native Totally agree with your comments about safety. Quite a few times I've passed on that run because of concerns about its slide risk. The other place I'm really cautious with is near the cornice over towards Hanazono above Jackson's. That actually released and carried a mate of mine last February - he was fine, not buried and it was a minor slide. I've heard of similar things happening there in the past. Link to post Share on other sites
gerard 6 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 How about traversing hard skier's left into the peak bowl from the top of the Hirafu lift? I've heard that's a big slide path. In other words--don't do it. (?) Link to post Share on other sites
jeanlucpoutine 0 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 There is now 400yen and 3 beers in the 'Bring Fattwins to Niseko' pool, think we should put the donation jar in Wild Bill's. Then, you can show em where the pic was taken, and have an onsen together. Hopefully we can gather enough for bus fare. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Originally Posted By: Go Native As others have pointed out the North bowl in that shot is no more than a 20 min hike from the top lift (have skied it many times). And you can ski out to the base of Hanazono with a little traversing. OK .. might be talking about a different area in my ignorance because *I* did not go there (my first time in snow remember), but a group of more experienced borders among us hiked to the peak from the top lift and found some playtime in a 'bowl' - sounds not too far from where you are talking at the very least. Why is this information interesting in regard to accessability to 'regular' people...hmm that might have something to do with the fact that along with 2 grown men there were 4 children - youngest was 7. It WAS April - so much less of an Avo risk - but it certainly was accessible! Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 400 yen is pretty far off Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Mama. you keep away from there OK? Fatts, I'll throw in a few beers too. Link to post Share on other sites
SerreChe 2 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I am the first one to enjoy steeps, but I must say that this pic of hanazono posted by BellaVista looks awsome. I love wide open terrain like that as well. You will find some gnarly stuff at haks that you will not find at N, but small % of peeps are able to ride it. Both places have a lot to offer, in the end it should be "whereever floats your board". It is a bit of a worry how the N area mentionned is so easily accessible by many. Seems like only a matter of time 'til somebody gets tagged in a bad way. GN, some of your comments about going it alone w/o gear etc... is a bit of a worry. Time for you to find a buddy as addicted as you are this season so that you are not on your own too often. Shouldn't the chap on the pic with the ice axe use his axe loop i/o strapping it accross? Looks like it is about to fall off? Anyway, whereever you are this season (H or N), enjoy & be safe! Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Just consider this. You are a family on a ski vaction in Japan. You are not an ex ski racer, your wife isn't one either. Your kid needs an instructor and a day creche with some warm play after the snow sliding. In the evening, after a thorough deep relaxing onsen veg out, you need a good restaurant with the best ingredients available; the freshest produce delivered that morning. You have a thoroughly enjoyable meal, then you head out for a walk and a drink. You may or may not want to see a foreign contingent loudly narating about this being the day they saw the most snow they have ever seen in their miserable lives. But the variety of places to hang gives you that choice. And before you know it, the dinner, the drinks and the delightful walk home puts you in the mood for some more onsen before hitting bed for the next morning's deep powder. And here then is the beginning of another powder day. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I haven't compared resorts or even said where the two spots are. Read back on how this morphed and you will see why. You have that one semi steep area off of the peak from 1308. How does that make the Resort not flat? Thursday your vacation sounds perfect of course not everyone is a super rider or etc. Fact Niseko is flat and I can see it on the map. 1308 is all you are gonna throw out there, try harder not impressed at all. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Fatts, let it be. Different wants for different people. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Originally Posted By: SerreChe It is a bit of a worry how the N area mentionned is so easily accessible by many. Seems like only a matter of time 'til somebody gets tagged in a bad way. GN, some of your comments about going it alone w/o gear etc... is a bit of a worry. Time for you to find a buddy as addicted as you are this season so that you are not on your own too often. Serre I've been skiing well over 20 years now in many places around the world so I have a little avvie awareness and I don't take silly risks. I do find it amazing though just how incredibly stable the snowpack here generally is (compared to many other places I've skied). I have skied here 150+ days and have only once witnessed an avvie that carried a skier along with it. It was small and the guys was not hurt or buried. I've also done many trips backcountry including up Youtei and have never once seen an avvie out back. I'm not saying they don't happen or are never dangerous but on the whole this is a pretty safe area when it comes to avvie danger. The resort managers have done a great job in minimising the risk with gate closures on high risk days. The locals rules have worked very well since there has been no deaths here since their introduction. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Hoks can get surface hoar etc easily. Last season a friend was being guided near the same area as the snowmobilers that died in the big avalanche. That guide "Japanese" dug a pit on that same day, said we are going back down the way we came. My friend was pissed off and wasnt going to use the guide again until... He saw on the news that day or the next day, that a big slide happened in the same general area. He was then very thank full. Anything can and will slide that is always the way I approach every run. Thursday I totally understand that it is different wants but he wanted to play the flat game so we are now playing "How flat is Niseko". Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Originally Posted By: thursday Mama. you keep away from there OK? . Had NO intention of going up there, my friend!! A couple of outings on a board does not a 'snowboarder' make!! LOL.. I know MY limitations. And the kids/men (none that belonged to me mind you!) who went there in April are not going there in January either...much more risk involved, much more nice snow easily accesible lower down! Part of the attraction of going up high in April was because it was gettin' kinda like a coke slushy from King Bell down - which suited me (with just 3 days on a board) just fine at the time...LOL Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Originally Posted By: bellavista Creek Boy and Go Native Totally agree with your comments about safety. Quite a few times I've passed on that run because of concerns about its slide risk. The other place I'm really cautious with is near the cornice over towards Hanazono above Jackson's. That actually released and carried a mate of mine last February - he was fine, not buried and it was a minor slide. I've heard of similar things happening there in the past. bellavista, 5 years ago I did a season up there and off of Jacksons theres a mandatory 2-3 meter jump that sluffed on me. Landed fine but was really happy it didnt slide. There are so many punters who hike halfway up the peak and drop in under somebody coming down the peak to Hanazono, both Japanese and foreigners. That pisses me off to no end. Its just stupid and irresponsible and shows their lack of knowledge. Having said that, hiking the peak at Niseko coming down off of Hanazono or further out into Jacksons is really sick. The same with Higashiyama and the Limited courses now called something like Namamugi Namagomi Namatamago???Some funky name like that... Link to post Share on other sites
snifter 0 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Originally Posted By: JeanLuc Poutine There is now 400yen and 3 beers in the 'Bring Fattwins to Niseko' pool, think we should put the donation jar in Wild Bill's. Then, you can show em where the pic was taken, and have an onsen together. Hopefully we can gather enough for bus fare. I will pledge 300yen to the jar only, and I repeat only if the jar is placed inside the smoke box, cause that's where I will be chillin. Would be a pleasure to be toured around Niseko by someone with vast knowledge on the overall flatness of the resort as Master 'twin. ??? Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Nice edit reason Link to post Share on other sites
Matt 0 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Originally Posted By: bellavista NOT....FLAT. Hey I'm enjoying this battle - it's a fun thread! Don't really care which is steeper or not and not trying to stoke the fire here (hehehehe) but this photo has clearly been taken at an angle thus making the slope appear steeper than it really is. If you need evidence check out this map. The peak to be seen over the right shoulder of Iwaonupuri is made up of a flat part with a small cone rising behind it. In the photo the cone shaped part seems much higher than the flat part with no col between them but actually if you look on the map they are almost the same height and there is a clear col between them. The flat part is point 984 (southwest of weisshorn) The cone shaped part is the un-named top directly west of it. There is only 16m difference between the two points and there is a col between the two highest points with slopes rising up to both. Visualize it in your brain Heres the map - http://watchizu.gsi.go.jp/watchizu.aspx?id=64402550&slidex=0&slidey=1200 The photos has been taken at an angle making a 30 degree slope look like a 40 degree one! Gonna get flamed for this one but I had a bit of time on my hands and I couldn't help it. btw I spent a three weeks in Niseko and 9 seasons in Hakuba so I guess that tells you which one I prefer.... Keep it coming lads - This thread is great entertainment! Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan 178 Posted November 20, 2007 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted November 20, 2007 To the one or two newcomers who currently seem intent on creating problems and at the same time winding us up in this and another thread. (They will know who they are because posts in this thread have been edited/deleted): Please read this http://www.snowjapanforums.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/218295#Post218295 If you simply cannot agree to the guidelines of these Forums, please do not post here. If we have to delete one more of your posts, we'll take away posting rights. Thank you. ^^^^^^^^^^^ Sorry everyone else...... back on topic? Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I would think that the sarcasm was aimed at me, dont worry I can take it. Do the math on the contour lines of the topo and you can find out how steep the pitch is. This isnt about Hakuba, it is about the fact that Niseko is flat. I have used pictures only to show you what flat doesnt look like. I have used a topo that shows, you just cant get anything steep with a long pitch. Take a look at the grand niseko maps, then look at the average pitch of the place and thats enough proof right there. Now fire up the Topo, really look and see that there is only a handle of terrain close to 30degrees! for no longer than 400 meters, most of the time much shorter than that. Back that up with other peoples comments and what more do you need. You need me to go there then really have a go at the place? I didnt want to do this but I will defend myself for facts that are just plain true. If you want light snow then heck Niseko is pretty good, anything steep give it a rest. JLP I want to hit Kurodake more than anywhere else in Hokkaido. That looks like a great mountain with drooling terrain. Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan 178 Posted November 20, 2007 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted November 20, 2007 [it wasn't actually Fattwins. What we object to has been deleted] Link to post Share on other sites
JaySee 0 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 K'dake is a sweet ride FT, but honestly, after seeing your pics (amazing btw), but then hearing your unimpressed stance on that pic off the back of the Niseko peak, I'm not so sure if you'd like it around K'dake so much... It's a good constant pitch, but as far as terrain features go, there really isn't a whole lot on offer- no chutes, cliffs (safe ones anyways) etc... It's basically just a long speed run which filters into some fun trees, and has amazing snow more often than not. I love it though, as does the BK, who've shared countless beers on it's summit. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I didnt think you guys were around anymore. Link to post Share on other sites
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