The FOOTBALL Thread (2005-2006)

[scouser 4]

You're doing well pie-eater, got to congratulate you on that. It will be interesting to see how long you can keep that up. I have some Everton friends back home and their situation at the moment is a bit of a shock to the system..... though they did happily get a draw against Chelsea over the weekend.

 

This is an interesting story - "2nd Bosman"...far -reaching if this came to happen

 

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1598620,00.html

[2pints-mate 0]

If I read that correctly, the England team would collapse if Fergie, Arse and maybe Jose had their way. Maybe a good thing

[ShinyDiscoBall 2]

Well we got beat last night. Not used to that feeling.

[scouser 4]

I am.

[ShinyDiscoBall 2]

Poor scouser

 

This might interest you, if you haven't already seen it

 

Crouch must learn art of positional play to heighten his powers

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,4284,1602463,00.html

[rach 1]

What a terrible game last night.

 

The Guardian:

"United were outplayed, outthought, outrun, outtackled and outclassed by a Boro side who had previously won only once at home in the Premiership this season."

 

 

Shocking.

 

Shocking.

[2pints-mate 0]

Shocking indeed, Fergie looked like a man truly beaten and tired of it towards the end there. But you've got to give credit to Middlesboro, they played really well. Great first goal there.

 

(We won scoring 4 goals by the way )

[pie-eater 207]

Another good weekend. Have you seen the goal difference though, even in the top 2:

 

1) Chelsea 22

2) Wigan 6

 

Is that really Wigan there at number 2?

[grungy-gonads 54]

I hope your lads can challenged Chelsea pie-eater --- seems no-one else has the slightest chance! Just think, if you had won that first game against Chelsea as well (as you were looking like you would until the 92nd minute!!)

[NoFakie 45]

Liverpool should have paid the money and signed Young Michael. He's starting to look very sharp again. CL winners and they can't spend a bit of dosh. The mind boggles.

 

Wigan have two quick forwards and give nothing away. As a toon fan, I have to say that they're riding their luck, but good on them all the same.

 

Sounds like Keano tongue's back on form, but not without reason this time coz ManYoo have been poor. However, you can still see him being shipped off to Celtic sooner rather than later. What's with that MUTV? Fergie won't talk to them (!) and now they've got Keano on there slagging most of the team. Is it some kind of Al-Jazeera?

[BagOfCrisps 24]

Whilst United are being pretty shite right now, I think Keano is as angry with himself as anyone else. Let's face it, he's past it only flashes of Keano-ness left in him.

 

Seems they pulled the programme where Keane was digging into 5 of his teammates, they didn't show it!

[giggsy 0]

United are doing well at having a crisis each season these last few. And it seemed like a decent start to the season this time as well.

 

I want to see Keane go, but at the same time worry about our midfield without him./

[scouser 4]

Top 10 classic Keano rants, according to Guardian

http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9753,1606114,00.html

 

I hadn't heard a fair few of those. He is entertaining, but recently comes across as a bitter fading man.

 

 Quote:

Liverpool should have paid the money and signed Young Michael. He's starting to look very sharp again. CL winners and they can't spend a bit of dosh. The mind boggles.

Perhaps they should have.

It does.

[BagOfCrisps 24]

By kind permission of me mate at the Mirror

 

JUST BECAUSE YOU GET £120K A WEEK YOU THINK YOU'RE A SUPERSTAR

KEANOGATE EXCLUSIVE WHAT ROY SAID ABOUT RIO IN THAT INTERVIEW

By Neil Mcleman

MIRROR SPORT lifts the lid today on the Roy Keane interview that has torn Manchester United apart.

 

The United captain named and shamed nearly the whole team which was humiliated 4-1 at Middlesbrough on Saturday night. But we can reveal that Keane reserved his most stinging criticism for England defender Rio Ferdinand.

 

He told MUTV in the interview they were banned from broadcasting: "Just because you are paid £120,000-a-week and play well for 20 minutes against Tottenham, you think you are a superstar.

 

"The younger players have been let down by some of the more experienced players. They are just not of characters in the team. It seems to be in this club that you have to play badly to be rewarded.

 

"Maybe that is what I should do when I come back. Play badly."

 

The sarcasm in Keane's words could not hide his continuing passion for a club he believes is failing its fans.

 

And Keane was last night said to be "unrepentant" over the interview but is angry at the way he has been treated.

 

 

United's desire to preserve harmony within the squad may see his leaving date brought forward to the January transfer window. Sources close to fiery Irishman Keane last night revealed the 34-year-old's fury at not being informed until late on about the decision to pull his interview because of its controversial content.

 

 

Chief executive David Gill (above) gave the order after viewing the tape. United's players are contracted to appear on MUTV and air their views on matters at Old Trafford, with manager Sir Alex Ferguson happy in the past for his captain to act as his mouthpiece.

 

 

That is why Keane is furious that what he saw as constructive criticism and honest forthright views were deemed to be potentially too damaging to be broadcast.

 

AND

 

THERE IS TALK ABOUT PUTTING THIS RIGHT IN JANUARY AND BRINGING NEW PLAYERS IN.. WE SHOULD DO THE OPPOSITE AND GET RID OF THEM IN JANUARY

EXCLUSIVE THE KEANEGATE TAPES

Neil Mcleman

ROY KEANE has been sitting on the sidelines for six weeks watching Manchester United slip behind Wigan, Bolton and Charlton in the title race. And he has had enough.

 

We can reveal in the 'Plays the Pundit' slot on MUTV that has erupted in controversy, Keane not only laid into defender Rio Ferdinand's approach, but harshly criticised senior players and attacked the younger members of United's faltering team.

 

They trail Premiership leaders Chelsea by 13 points and are far from certain of progressing in the Champions League and Keane said: "There is talk about putting this right in January and bringing players in. We should be doing the opposite - we should be getting rid of people in January."

 

Keane has often acted as Sir Alex Ferguson's public mouthpiece, but it was the manager who made the decision not to broadcast the interview after he was alerted to its contents.

 

The player is understood to be standing by his criticisms which included harsh words for the multi-millionaire senior players who he believes are responsible for the general malaise at the two-time European champions.

 

He named keeper Edwin Van der Sar, Paul Scholes and Ruud van Nistelrooy, but reserved his most pointed attack for Ferdinand, who delayed signing a new deal in the summer until he had secured club record wages of £6.24 million a year.

 

"Just because you are paid £120,000-a-week and play well for 20 minutes against Tottenham, you think you are a superstar.

 

 

"The younger players have been let down by some of the more experienced ones - they are not leading. There is a shortage of characters.

 

 

"It seems to be in this club you have to play badly to be rewarded. Maybe that is what I should do when I come back - play badly."

 

 

In his analysis of Saturday's humiliating 4-1 defeat by Middlesbrough Keane admitted: "I wasn't surprised by the result I had been expecting one like this.

 

 

"The players have been asked questions and they are just not coming up with the answers.

 

 

"I am sick of having to say it and they are sick of listening to me.

 

 

"They have let down the club, the manager, and the fans.

 

 

"When they sign the contracts, they think they have made it. They owe it to the manager, the staff and the fans."

 

 

Keane also slammed the young generation of players he says have failed to win the trophies to justify their inflated wages. "These guys thought getting new contracts was the best day of their careers," he said.

 

 

"They think they have made it. They haven't."

 

 

And the United captain insisted a long injury list also including Gary Neville, Gabriel Heinze and Ryan Giggs could not be used as an excuse for a lack of effort on the pitch.

 

 

"The fact they are out should be enough incentive for those coming in to play better and give more," he said. "It is not enough to play well for 20 minutes, it is a 90-minute game.

 

 

"You get well rewarded but you have to put the hard work to earn those rewards."

 

 

But last month the former Ireland midfielder shocked the Old Trafford hierarchy by using MUTV to announce he will quit the club at the end of the season after failing to be offered a new deal.

 

 

And this time the 34-year-old, out with a broken foot, has gone even further in a rant resembling his famous outburst against Ireland manager Mick McCarthy at the last World Cup.

 

 

Just a fortnight ago Sir Alex was still claiming Keane could be persuaded to sign a one-year contract extension and play a 14th season at Old Trafford.

 

 

And Keane did avoid directly criticising the United manager and said "he will put it right."

 

 

But doing so with a dressing room still including Keane appears impossible.

 

 

WHAT ROY SAID IN THAT INTERVIEW

 

 

KEANE ON: EDWIN VAN DER SAR

 

 

Analysing the first goal United condeded against Middlesbrough, when Edwin Van der Sar let slip a 30-yard shot... He should have saved that. That was saveable

 

 

KEANE ON: JOHN O'SHEA

 

 

He's just strolling around when he should have been busting a gut to get back

 

 

KEANE ON: RIO FERDINAND

 

 

Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink robbed Ferdinand for the second goal... I have seen that happen to Rio before. It is poor defending

 

 

KEANE ON: DARREN FLETCHER

 

 

I can't understand why people in Scotland rave about Darren Fletcher

 

 

KEANE ON: KEIRAN RICHARDSON

 

 

On the penalty Richardson gave away.... He is a lazy defender who deserved to get punished.. he wasn't doing his job

 

 

KEANE ON: ALAN SMITH

 

 

What is he doing there? He is wandering around as if he is lost. He doesn't know what he is doing

[pie-eater 207]

 Quote:

Wigan have two quick forwards and give nothing away

Recipie for success! Riding some luck maybe, but I think all teams even Chelsea would have to say they do that at times. (See first game of season perhaps )

[zebedee 1]

Rio Ferdinand

http://www.celebritymessages.com/viewProduct.aspx?id=RFSAEC002

[scouser 4]

He's a one, isn't he Rio.

[giggsy 0]

Class link that zebedee. He really is a donkey.

 

Got sent this from a friend good read for anyone interested.

 

>

 

An Open Letter To Sir Alex of Ferguson

 

Dear Sir,

What a week, eh?

 

I can’t imagine that you've endured seven days like it in your twenty years at Old Trafford. Forgive the candour, but it's been so dire that I’m struggling to imagine you lasting another twenty days.

 

On the field, your team has let you down – but, hey, when you have a midfield of Richardson, Fletcher and Smith, what did you expect?

 

But it's events off the pitch that have spoke of an irreversible decline and shattered the last remnants of your authority inside a crumbling empire.

 

Surely even you must realise now that the damage caused by Roy’s interview was only enhanced, rather than diminished, by your refusal to let it be broadcast on MUTV?

 

After all, and 'all' wasn't much more than twenty-four hours, everybody now knows – or, worse, thinks they know – what Keano said. The only effect of censorship was to saddle the story with a salacious twist. Headlines of 'Keane gagged by ManYoo' were manna from heaven for us hacks. Cheers, Alex. A great story just got given great legs.

 

If the interview was broadcast then we would have known what Keano said. By suppressing the story, Fleet Street was set free to speculate on what Keano said and publish transcripts.

 

So what if those transcripts weren't accurate. Who knows? Who cares? They had the bonus of possibly being credible and that was enough (and all thanks to you).

 

I read in one of those larger papers which doesn't have a red masthead that Keano denys criticising Rio or Liam Miller. But, after days and days of 'Revealed: Here's what Keano said about Rio, Miller, Fletcher et al', the damage has already been done. The public will remember what they think Keano said.

 

What’s more, Fleet Street's finest can even enjoy the added bonus of reporting how 'a livid Keane' will leave ManYoo because he was gagged (See: 'Keane is on the verge of quitting Manchester United over the MUTV bust-up. United's captain is fuming his criticisms of certain players were banned from being screened' – Copyright, The Sun, Tuesday).

 

Your mis-management of this story is extraordinary.

 

And that, of course, reflects badly on your ability to continue being manager of the club.

 

As one of your critics pointed out recently, after Ryan Giggs' autobiography revealed that Carlos Queiroz has the responsibility 'to train us, prepare us for games, organise the team and decide the things we need to work on', nobody seems sure what it is you do any more except deal with the gentlemen of the press. And you’re doing an appalling job of that.

 

But the story of Keanogate isn't just how you lost control of the story, but the revelation that you've lost control of Manchester United.

 

Ever since you mentioned the word 'retirement' it has been slowly ebbing away, but the trickle is now a haemorrhage.

 

It’s not often F365 paraphrases Michael Howard, but he has also spotted a lame duck leader this week, a man whose influence has been eroded to the extent that he's "in office but not in power".

 

A loss of control is symptomatic of a lame duck leader and Keanogate has demonstrated that you’ve lost control.

 

Previously, the skipper would only speak out with your approval. But, to use that political parlance again, he was "off-message" this week. This, according to the people who know, 'was an interview the manager knew nothing about.' Hence you ordered it to be culled. The mouthpiece had turned on its master.

 

Rebelliousness from your favourite son has been growing steadily. Remember this summer when his vein nearly popped out again upon demanding to know why you had yet to sign his replacement? Remember how you had no answer? Or when you suffered the ultimate indignity of being forced to impersonate Mick McCarthy as Keano blew one of the few remaining gaskets at the training camp in Cyprus?

 

This, though, was far worse. Keano was going directly against you in public. Saying half of the team wasn't good enough. Half of your team, for crying out loud! He might as well just announced 'the manager has lost it' and saved us all the bother.

 

This isn't the first time that you've had to mute Keano, of course. There was that Ole Solskjaer video in 2002, wasn’t there? But the difference then was that Roy was was simply repeating your lament at the number of chances missed. Moreover, you managed to keep the story under wraps. Now there are more leaks at ManYoo than in Wales. In the good old days, when you ruled Manchester, it was easy to stay in control of the story. Power and fear held sway. Not now. Not now that you’ve become a lame duck.

 

Everywhere you look in the press this week there are signs that your time is up.

 

It says something, doesn't it, that even Arsene Wenger has started speaking up for you? Your greatest rival now pities you. That's when he remembers who you are, of course. It used to be you and Arsene going head-to-head in the press. Now it's Jose and Arsene. After twenty years of being the main man, you’ve been usurped and confined to the obituaries column.

 

Can you fight back? I doubt it.

 

I doubt it because there’s no evidence to suggest your team is good enough to make a recovery and plenty that states that your team is mediocre and nothing more (how many goals in Europe have you scored this year, Sir Alex?).

 

And I doubt it because I don't believe you have the fight any more.

 

There have been a few limp blows meted out – telling that pesky Sky Sports reporter that he "was finished", for instance, but the fact that he even dared asked about the Keano tape as you stood at passport control suggests that he thinks you're finished – but you don't have the power to make a significant punch any more.

 

You're caught in that terrible catch-22 when you can't gain back any authority until your team starts winning again. And your team won't start winning again until you regain your authority over the club. The words 'Ferguson' and ‘motivator’ used to be synonymous. I say 'used to be' because if that dismal defeat in Lille is to be remembered for anything it will be the lack of fight, the lack of spirit, the lack of defiance from your team.

 

And that, too, was mirrored in your post-match interview. Well, they do say that a football team is the mirror-image of its leader.

 

Have you seen a re-run of the interview, Sir Alex?

 

If you haven't, I'll tell you how you appeared: Beaten, exhausted and old. Very, very old.

 

Let’s be honest, you've not been in your prime for a while, nor looked it – which reminds me, I must cut back on the Merlot myself - but you've never looked as old as this. Those bags under your eyes looked like sacks, and I swear you must have put in grey hair dye at half-time to make it change so rapidly.

 

Jesting aside, there was a haunting element to that interview that unsettled me. It was as if we were all intruding on private grief and nobody had told you the bad news.

 

Truthfully, I pitied you. You, the most successful manager of your generation, the most successful of the 'greatest club in the universe'.

 

Whenever I look at you from now I will not see a successful manager who left the field when he should, nor a man who used to dominate football and the media as if it his own personal fiefdom.

 

Instead, I will see a sad old man, losing his power and dignity, unable to make a stand against the sands of time sweeping him away into mediocrity and ridicule.

 

But if it's terrible for us, I can’t imagine how soul-destroying it must be for you.

 

Yours in sympathy,

 

Mediawatch’s rather sorrowful monkey.

[scouser 4]

Nice read. I wonder what the headlines will be today with last nights result Knowing the press something like "the end of Chelsea" or something equally stupid.

 

I'm a bit miffed at the lack of Liverpool games on sky this year - seems even less than before, no doubt due to Bolton always being on because of Nakata. Not too pleased.

[rach 1]

I stayed up for that and was dreading before that I would be in a real bad mood - but no, what a great game that was - very entertaining. United had the first half, Chelsea the second but it was a fast paced exciting game and all 3 points went to United.

 

Tired but happy this morning.

[2pints-mate 0]

won the battle, etc....

 

Good game.

[BagOfCrisps 24]

Great game indeed for a neutral (if you can call me neutral on the subject of Chelsea or ManYoo )

[Honest John 0]

Great match it was, I was there - and an excellent atmosphere as well (not something that is guaranteed at Old Traffod these days, I'm afraid). Let's just hope the worst is now over and this marks the start of the rest of the season so to speak.

[rach 1]

Honest John - how often you go to games at OT? I'm very jealous.

[scouser 4]

Anyone else watch the England game on Sat night? Decent game for once. Nice to beat Argentina again as well*

 

(* coz such a good team an' all.... hardly recognise any of them at the mo though)