Next season - let's remember this

[Slippery Jim 65]

GN: Ok, point by point...

I don't actually give a damn about official `opening dates,' my earlier remark was a riposte to your statement that a ski resort can be `open' when lifts aren't running. Nothing to do with dates. If there are no lifts running, the `ski resort' ain't open. period. end of story.

 

Steep terrain: ah, back country! well, sorry but Niseko can't compete even in Japan on back country steeps (as I'd say Yamabushi showed with his pix of Hakkoda). Niseko has some decent backcountry runs, yes, but not on a comparative basis with Norikura, or Hakuba, or even in Hokkaido with Asahidake (I haven't been to Kurodake, but I'm betting...). Inbounds, Niseko is a nice resort with a handful of runs that just make it to single black diamond rating. It ain't flat, by any means. But it ain't steep.

 

Marketing. I really don't want to get into this because it will be unfair (as you are neither the only, nor the worst). But your job does give you a vested interest in promoting the area, and newcomers to these forums won't necessarily know that.

For the record, I do NOT think GN seeks to use the forums to promote his business, and I would argue most strongly against any such implication.

 

Snow: I think you really believe it, and I think you're wrong. Just to mention a few names: Grand Targhee (which, btw, a lot of silly people also claim wrongly is ``flat.''), Alta, Fernie, Red Mt., Whitewater, Mt. Baker...

I'm not familiar with European resorts so I won't go there, but I suspect there are a few names that could be added.

I'm not saying these are BETTER powder areas, but that they are just as good, just as consistent, and for the most part offer more and more interesting terrain.

As I've said before, I love Niseko. I go there every winter, typically two or three trips of four to five days each. It's a great place. In any given season there will be six to eight weeks (my personal estimate) of guaranteed outstanding powder. And it does not need, nor benefit from, exaggerated claims of being some special powder paradise. But if you tell people, as you have on this site, that Niseko's powder season runs from December to April, well that's just silly. Second week of January to third week of February? Mate, I'm right there with you. Outside of those weeks, better hope you're lucky if you're not a local.

 

Hakodate? Oh, now that's a low blow. I love Hakodate...not quite as much as I love Tokyo, but yeah I could definitely live there.

 

Beers on me in January, GN. I'll PM you when I'm on the way up.

 

And with that, I'm out of this thread. Think I've provided more than enough entertainment to the sweating masses. Hope it's a great season everywhere!

[Slippery Jim 65]

Oh, damn, can't resist.

GN, you do realize you have Jynxx arguing your side...

[thursday 1]

pussie.

[thursday 1]

or is it spelt pussy

[Go Native 70]

No European resort even comes close to the average annual snowfall of Niseko or most Japanese resorts. The snowiest resorts in Europe barely average half of what we get here. Yes there are some resorts in the US that equal or even exceed the annual snowfall here but few have the consistency of powder. Mt Baker is typical of the pacific NW. There's a lot of snow but consistency is crap. Sure inland in Utah and Wyoming you have high annual snowfalls but most of the snow comes from big storm systems with lengthy fine periods in between. This often translates to very unstable snowpack with avie danger that is rarely seen in this region. And the only resorts in the US that even come close to comparing to here in terms of snowfall are at nose bleed altitudes. Few Canadian resorts come close to this area in average annual snowfall. The only areas that do are close to the coast and consistency is a big issue there. I did a season at Revelstoke which is one of the highest snowfall regions in Canada and the only way I got to ski consistently good powder similar to what is just off-piste here was through heli-skiing.

 

Does the Niseko region stack up terrain wise to some of the major mountain ranges of the world? Of course not, the highest peak aside from Yotei is only 1308m but that doesn't mean there's not some awesome terrain out there. When you have skiable snow to sea level there's practically no limit to the terrain you can find. It may not be really big mountain terrain but it can still be great fun.

[mitchpee 10]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

No European resort even comes close to the average annual snowfall of Niseko or most Japanese resorts. The snowiest resorts in Europe barely average half of what we get here. Yes there are some resorts in the US that equal or even exceed the annual snowfall here but few have the consistency of powder. Mt Baker is typical of the pacific NW. There's a lot of snow but consistency is crap. Sure inland in Utah and Wyoming you have high annual snowfalls but most of the snow comes from big storm systems with lengthy fine periods in between. This often translates to very unstable snowpack with avie danger that is rarely seen in this region. And the only resorts in the US that even come close to comparing to here in terms of snowfall are at nose bleed altitudes. Few Canadian resorts come close to this area in average annual snowfall. The only areas that do are close to the coast and consistency is a big issue there. I did a season at Revelstoke which is one of the highest snowfall regions in Canada and the only way I got to ski consistently good powder similar to what is just off-piste here was through heli-skiing.

Does the Niseko region stack up terrain wise to some of the major mountain ranges of the world? Of course not, the highest peak aside from Yotei is only 1308m but that doesn't mean there's not some awesome terrain out there. When you have skiable snow to sea level there's practically no limit to the terrain you can find. It may not be really big mountain terrain but it can still be great fun.

Hey you best not be calling us Utah folk unstable! It is true though, layers are interesting here I try to dig a snow pit every week and it gets pretty rough. Lots of sun in Utah and it does WORK on anything SE, S, or SW facing.

Utah gets more snow than Wyoming/Montana simply because of that massive stinking inland Salt Lake that acts as a giant battery for snowstorms. Really makes it seem like a coastal-esque place. The thing about Baker is they get a ton of snow and it is pretty consistent but it is just so damn heavy!

Just my petty contribution to this thread.

[Jynxx 4]

Originally Posted By: Slippery Jim

Oh, damn, can't resist.
GN, you do realize you have Jynxx arguing your side...

touche

GN has shrapnel in his mouth, but unlike a mortar, he is a straight shooter.
He isn´t hyped up like he was a couple of years ago, so I let that go (and he is a better writer for most of the readers)
Jim, I kinda know were you are coming from ...

[Jynxx 4]

Yeah, well, it´s not about the amount of snow ...

Consistency, YES! Snow Every night so there´s a freshy every day, No heavy snow please ...

Terrain ... Give me Europe any time. There´s no way I can explore the Alps in a life time. Forget trees.

[Mike Pow 52]

Originally Posted By: Slippery Jim

GN: Ok, point by point...
I don't actually give a damn about official `opening dates,' my earlier remark was a riposte to your statement that a ski resort can be `open' when lifts aren't running. Nothing to do with dates. If there are no lifts running, the `ski resort' ain't open. period. end of story.

The Niseko Resort Area accommodation, restaurant and retail facilities are open and receiving guests, the Niseko United Ski Area is currently closed due to lack of snow.

Quote:

Steep terrain: ah, back country! well, sorry but Niseko can't compete even in Japan on back country steeps (as I'd say Yamabushi showed with his pix of Hakkoda). Niseko has some decent backcountry runs, yes, but not on a comparative basis with Norikura, or Hakuba, or even in Hokkaido with Asahidake (I haven't been to Kurodake, but I'm betting...). Inbounds, Niseko is a nice resort with a handful of runs that just make it to single black diamond rating. It ain't flat, by any means. But it ain't steep.

The Niseko United Ski Area has steeper terrain than Asahidake.

Quote:

Snow: I think you really believe it, and I think you're wrong... And it does not need, nor benefit from, exaggerated claims of being some special powder paradise. But if you tell people, as you have on this site, that Niseko's powder season runs from December to April, well that's just silly. Second week of January to third week of February? Mate, I'm right there with you. Outside of those weeks, better hope you're lucky if you're not a local.

I've skied a few of the places you mentioned and many more 'powder paradises' besides. I believe it. I've done three seasons in the Niseko Resort Area and I'm itching to get back for more.

During that time, I've skied powder consistently in November, December, January, February and March each of those three seasons. 5 month pow season, with occasional gifts in October and April. I'll take it

http://www.snowjapanforums.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/328832/1.html

[griller 9]

Anyway, as I said, next season - let's remember this!

[Tubby Beaver 209]

I had a look at this time last year's reports for Shiga Kogen and they are pretty much the same.....a few lifts open and what snow was available was thin on the ground. I went there over New Year and it snowed and snowed, the conditions were great so for sure we should remember that this is still early and the real snow conditions are still to come....and that is normal (just wish it wasn't SO normal! )

[thursday 1]

Lots of people on the slopes of N but no lifts running.

 

How are they getting up there?

[thursday 1]

don't tell me they walk.

[RobBright 35]

Originally Posted By: thursday

don't tell me they walk.

They run.

[gnarly-dude 1]

If you're gnarly enough, you'll put weights on your back and jog up.

You'll even do that when the lifts are working.

[ILoveZao 8]

I think most resorts have a fairly realistic date for their "opening" or the date they try to reach. Zao usually just says that it will open when there is enough snow as far as I know and it usually is end of November for a small part of the resort. Sadly this year that is not happening of course.

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: thursday

Lots of people on the slopes of N but no lifts running.

How are they getting up there?

Lifts are definitely running. If you look at the Japanese site they show which ones. Looks like they haven't been bothered updating the English one.

[griller 9]

So, with many places still really struggling to get going - if at all - as of 21st December ----- let's remember this.

 

[pie-eater 207]

Nah, everyone'll forget.

Nozawa will have it's Grand Opening on 23rd November.

And another thread like this will be born!

[griller 9]

[muikabochi 208]

Well, for 10/11 looks like it is going to be Christmas weekend when things really get started. If this current snow brings us enough. Come on snow fall in huge amounts. Now!!!!