Songwriting

[rach 1]

Anyone here ever written any songs? I'm always intrigued by the thought of someone actually sitting down and writing a song. How do they do it? How does it all come together? Wild. Anyone any experience to share?

 

[snowboard_freak 0]

I'd love to be able to sit down and write songs. But i was born without that part of the brain.

 

Sunrise should be able to chuck in some good info.

[Ocean11 0]

rach, when I was in Osaka I was in a band (The Happy Manatee Band) and I wrote the lyrics while my Japanese friend wrote the music. It was hard work. He complained that my words were hard to put to music, and I moaned that his tunes didn't fit the mood I wanted. It didn't help that we lacked training and talent and were half drunk most of the time too. Some of the songs turned out OK though, and we performed them at charity events, live houses and things.

 

Inspiration comes from women who turn you on without knowing it, religion that you disagree with, minute aspects of the culture around you, and the thoughts of other poets and songwriters that you want to enlarge on. Expressing all of that is actually far easier than explaning to your sullen Japanese bassist exactly how you want him to contribute to your song about senko hanabi and your colleague's wife's thighs.

[Stefan 0]

I've written a little bit of poetry.

 

I once read some to a friend.

 

"That doesn't rhyme though."

 

Never again.

 

Like SF I wish I had the talent and like Ocean I wish I could waste it.

[mikazooki 0]

there have been many average song writers, but i choose to quote only the greats.

 

 Quote:

Save the whales

 

Oh funky mama save the whales

 

Save the whales!

 

But shoot the seals

poetry for the soul...if we all had such a skill, it wouldnt be special, now, would it?

[hide 0]

Mr Ocean - show us some of your lyrics please

[scouser 4]

Not a clue!

[Markie 0]

Writing music and setting words to it is part of the Royal School of Music examination in Music Theory. I have done it and it is no big deal writing a small piece which makes "music sense". The difficulty is writing something which is good enough for people to enjoy listening to. Similar to saying - everyone can write an essay or a story but not everyone has writing skills good enough to write a book which can sell.

[Goemon 0]

 Quote:

The Happy Manatee Band

Ocean11: Can you divulge the inspiration for this name? It reminds me of a bit on the old "Dr. Katz" cartoon series where a troubled manatee lamented that everyone called him " sea cow "

"Call me 'Manatee'! 'MANATEE'!!!"

[veronica 2]

I would really love to be able to write songs, what a glorious gift that must be.....

[Markie 0]

Sunrise, it probably the most qualified song writer in this forum. I believe she has produced a new record this year.

[akibun 0]

Really? Thats great! I want to hear it.

[rachael 0]

Yeah, lets hear some sounds

[proudtobegay 0]

I've written a few songs in my time, none of them I'm willing to share

 

[IIIII 2]

Oh go on!

 

Lets hear some of your words Ocean11 too! Where they love songs or ones of angst?

[zwelgen 0]

I had to write some for music when i was at high school. Cant remember much about them now but they probably sucked. 9 years of piano lessons to play other peoples music though? Now that I think

about it it was fun making stuff up.

 

I heard there are 2 ways to write music. One is to write the words then set the music to it (a la Mr11) and the other is to write the music then make words to it. Hmmm wheres a piano...

[Karnidge 2]

I'm writing a song now. It's gonna be a winner. Audio clips coming soon

[sunrise 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by rachael:
Yeah, lets hear some sounds

Watch this space....

[sunrise 0]

Hi Rach,

 

Oops, a late reply.... Like you I'm also fascinated by the different ways people write songs. I have a few different ways of writing, but this is kinda long so skip thru if you're not interested.

 

One way I write is sitting down at the piano or keyboard and just playing around, improvising, I guess, with nothing in mind and not trying anything in particular, just seeing where things might go, and at some point an idea might start to emerge, in which case I'll either notate it out, or turn on the recorder and record the bits I might be interested in keeping.

 

Anyway, once a musical idea starts to emerge I continue to play around with it, see where it might want to go, trying to keep out of my own way at the same time and just let it flow without too much judgement at first. At that early point I'll let myself sing or hum a little bit and see what melodies and/or words might want to pop out. I just keep going with the idea as long it keeps flowing. It will usually stop at some point and then I'll go back and just keep playing and singing what I have until I reach the stopping point, and then I try and either let my hands play (and me sing) without trying anything in particular, just to see where it might want to go - sometimes the next bit just pops out. Or I try and listen within for what might want to come next, or sometimes it's a bit of both at the same time. I focus fully on what's going on inside, just like you would focus fully when riding out on the slopes. It often feels like I'm trying to draw something out by being as receptive as possible to the thread of the idea without trying to form it too much, rather I try and let it take its own shape first, before I begin refining it.

 

I write down even the most senseless words that come out along with the musical idea (if I'm not recording the idea on tape). Sometimes my words will make sense straight away, sometimes they don't. (Same with the music, too, I guess). Sometimes the words don't need to be changed and can stay as is, sometimes I need to change them later to make them fit better with the meaning of the song (sometimes it takes a while for the song's meaning to reveal itself). At some point, if I don't already know what the song is about before I begin, I start to sense some kind of concept around what it might be about. Then I have to somehow turn that into words that will best convey the meaning and the emotion behind it. I always try to let as much as possible 'pop out', before using my analytical process to help find words to convey the images and emotions.

 

Once the idea or my focus or energy seems to be spent, I stop, leave it, and return to it another time, perhaps later in the day, or the next day, or sometimes much later. If a song idea seems to be developing nicely I like to play around with it pretty much every day I can, for a period of time, even once the song is finished. Probably because the song has a meaning for me that I need to experience by singing and playing it. At some point the desire to keep playing it lessens, and usually around then another song idea will come out to take my focus. Or, sometimes I get caught up in other things and don't get a chance to return to the ideas for quite awhile. Although the initial energy of a song eventually runs its course, leaving space for the next creative idea to come through, it can easily come back to life again later, when performing it and/or recording it. That's another process in itself and that's where arrangement comes in as a song will sound different depending on the arrangement.

 

Some songs come out whole, all in one sitting, like a good birthing process, other times I've had some songs where the main idea appeared a few years before the remaining missing thread appeared to finish it off. For me writing music is kinda like operating a short wave radio tuner. Some stations are there immediately, loud and clear, and some are more fuzzy, faint, full of static, etc and may take a lot of fine tuning to be able to hear them properly. I feel my job as a songwriter/composer is to focus on listening very carefully for stations (aka ideas) while operating the tuner.

 

I have to document my ideas, whether by notating them or recording them (for initial ideas I tend to use MD and stereo mic when recording and sometimes multi-track them later on my computer). I have a memory like a sieve and if I don't document an idea, unless I'm able to repeat it over and over in my head it's highly likely that I'll have no chance of remembering it later on. Not always the case, though. Sometimes a song or melody will start running thru my head, while I'm walking somewhere (usually in nature). A few weeks back I was walking through the park, feeling melancholy about relationships (haven't thought about that subject for quite awhile, as I've been too busy with my recording process) and thinking 'maybe love will elude me...' and then a melody to those words came to me, just the first few bars, so I kept singing it over and over so that I wouldn't forget it, and I went home and a whole song came out all around that (after which my mood had totally lifted, and so far hasn't returned). Another time a whole song came to me walking along a beach and I had to keep running it over and over until I could get somewhere to write it down. I have a friend who walks around with a mini voice recorder cos he gets so many ideas while he's out and about. Another friend had the brainwave idea of calling his home phone, with his keitai, singing the idea onto his answering machine.

 

There are times when melody or lyrics come to me while trying to get to sleep and I have to get up and put it down so I won't forget it, and even after doing that, sometimes the damn thing refuses to let me sleep so I'm forced to get up again and work on it until it tells me 'okay, you got me down, you can go to sleep now'. (It's always good to treat your ideas with respect, they'll respect you in return, even though they sometimes like to come at inconvenient times). I've also woken from dreams with songs or melodies, or grooves running thru my head and as much as possible I try and get these down on paper or tape.

 

I certainly have many more unfinished ideas than I have completed songs, but I think that's just part of the process, I really think that those unfinished ideas are an important part of the creative process and they somehow tend to take one onto the next whole song that's waiting to come out further down the track.

 

A few years ago I started writing to grooves instead of just at the piano/kb. I would buy percussion sample CDs and listen to them and sometimes melodies would come to me with those grooves. I'd then hit record and just sing along, letting whatever stupid words pop out, and whatever melodies, etc..... I often need time to absorb a basic idea (it might only be the verse section that I get initially, say). Then if I want to try and develop it further, into a fully fledged song I return to it later and see what else might want to come out and sometimes I direct it a little - taking it in different directions till I find one that works, or if nothing works, I just keep it there and listen to it from time to time in case a new direction suddenly jumps out at me.

 

Working to grooves can be a lot of fun. Another way I like to record at times, is when playing around with a synth - as the different sounds bring out different things. If anything strikes me I'll record it and listen back, sometimes months or even a few years later. One song I wrote, I was playing around with some orchestral string sounds and found a really cool chord progression, though I didn't know what to do with it. Then, a year or two later I found the cassette I'd recorded it on and I played it and instantly a really strong melody popped out when I sang along to it. The lyrics are rather strange, but I was able to edit the excess of what I'd sung into the cassette into something that made sense to me, even if no-one else is ever able to figure it out.

 

I also sometimes develop an ideas by multi-tracking them on my computer (or in the old days on a trusty ol' portastudio) and using MIDI. It's fun if you have everything ready to go, but I find that the technology can easily hinder my creative flow if I have to plug too many things and switch things on and set things up and then find myself caught in technology land trying to get things to work properly, etc..... So when multi-tracking new ideas I record things with a mic (just rough cruddy mics, we're not talking master studio quality recordings here!) or a line in from the keyboard trying to keep away trying from too much MIDI editing in the initial creative phase (as I said, my programming sucks, so I tend to keep away from it at that point). Multitracking ideas can be really fun - to layer things on top of each other and see what emerges.

 

I usually write music and lyrics together, but sometimes I have to write lyrics for jobs. I like having the music to work to as it inspires the words, though sometimes they want me to write the lyrics first. Still, that's another way of working if you're feeling stifled with your musical ideas.

 

People like Mozart blow me away - hearing everything completed in their head before ever notating (or nowadays, even recording) anything. That's what's so fascinating about the creative process - everyone does it their own way and what works for one doesn't work for another...

 

Speaking of lyrics, since people were talking about them, I agree with Ocean's notion that a good way to write lyrics is to write from your passion, and whatever interests you. Write about, as Mr 11 said - whatever (or whoever) turns you on, or whatever pisses you off, or whatever is devastating you, or whatever is inspiring you, or whatever you agree or disagree strongly with. As long as it has meaning for you it will always be a worthwhile lyric. For those who say they can't write a good lyric, I disagree. I really believe that if you write about something that you're passionate about or interested in, you simply can't write a 'bad' lyric. I mean - who's the one who judges what's a 'good' or 'bad' lyric anyway, besides whether it has meaning for you, the writer. (The Grammys and the record companies sure don't - just listen to the lyrics of some of their top 40 songs.) If you can convey what you're trying to say, even just to yourself, how could it be a 'bad' lyric?

I once assisted a songwriter/musician a couple of times on a workshop called Lifesong that he used to run. He would get the participants to write about their deepest pain or conflict, and then, if they needed it, we would help them turn it into lyrics, and after that everyone would get together and then Hans and me and another musician, and the person whose song it was would turn it into a song. The songs always turned out really powerful (whatever genre/form they took), because the lyrics were so important for the person who'd written them which, in turn inspired the music. As well as coming out with a good song, the song also always had a really powerful effect on the writer and the rest of us. That taught me a lot about the transformative power of creativity, and I tend to see my own songwriting as creative therapy, whether writing about deep issues, or just light and fun things, and I know many songwriters who see songwriting and music in general in that way.

 

Also, I totally disagree that lyrics are no good unless they rhyme. Mine often don't but they seem to fit fine, and if you listen around you'll soon find that many other people's lyrics don't rhyme also - and many of their songs are great songs. Mr Matthews, whoever put you down for that is full of crap and there's no need to listen to that person. Show your poetry to someone else instead who can appreciate it, and for gods sake never stop writing it. It's probably wonderful. I get so angry at people who consciously or unconsciously crush people's creativity by damming remarks like that. Artists who first start sharing their work need to be supported, not shot down. Remarks like that can be a death sentence, or can set people back for years. A remark about my voice at my very first voice lesson stopped me daring to take my singing seriously again for another 8 or so years. And even then I was very tentative at first. And in the first band that I dared to do originals songs with, if they had shot me down with put-downs I may not have dared to venture them out in the world again. Those early days are so important to one's confidence, so that they can deal with the inevitable rejections and less than positive feedback that are bound to come the more one continues to put their work out in the world.

 

Well, if you've managed to read this far you'll see that this is a subject close to my heart. I might even write a book on it someday - about the creative process in general as well as interviews with different songwriters about their creative process.