SnowJapan.Com#3 0 Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Some photos taken this morning of the "snow" being made at Naeba: http://www.snowjapan.com/e/daily/naeba-now.php Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Naeba cant be that good of a resort if it has to MAKE snow Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 this must be the ice for tonight's coctail party. Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Late last spring (maybe June) we drove past Iwatake in Hakuba on our way to ski something big and there were piles of snow like that that were covered up in the big snowfalls of early December. There wasn't any real snow that low in the valley. They never got around to flattening them out. I wonder what is in the snow that makes it last so long... Link to post Share on other sites
montoya 0 Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 more than you ever wanted to know about artificial snow: http://pubs.acs.org/cen/whatstuff/stuff/8203snow.html I'll wait for the real stuff to fall, till then will probably go out for a few more hikes. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Well, theres one reason to boycott Naeba Resport. Link to post Share on other sites
Markie 0 Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 That's not such a good reason as "that resort is really quite crowded". I remember there were often some serious lines at the bottom lifts. The night skiing was pretty good though. Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 It looks like fine sugar. Interesting info there Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Er, I think I'll wait for real snow. Good that it's getting cold enough to do that though. Link to post Share on other sites
excited 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Whats it like boarding on that man-made snow? Tell much difference? Link to post Share on other sites
cayote 0 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Wanting to go to Naeba again is like wanting to meet an ex-girlfriend you would have been better off not having met in the first place. The north face of the mountain is much better - go to Kagura instead. Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Tell much difference? Don't know myself but when it's just a few hundred metres 10 metres wide, it doesn't sound that appealing to me. Like others, I will wait for the real stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Quote: Originally posted by excited: Whats it like boarding on that man-made snow? Tell much difference? It is appalling rock hard high density stuff. Wrist breaker for snowboarders. Lots of snow making in Europe, resorts list it as a feature in their marketing. I see it as the single biggest reason to avoid a resort. Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 I have skied a lot on man-made snow I don't find it that bad in North America where many of the ski outs are on man made stuff. These places used a more traditional method of making snow though I went out twice to places in the Takasu area with man made in November and it was fun to get out skiing. But the snow they make isn't very good. They can make it at high temps and it is really just crushed up ice Good to get your legs and everything organized before it all starts up for real Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Skis are always better than a skid-biscuit on hard and icy (man made) Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 What are the 'more traditional' methods toque? Link to post Share on other sites
KRUSTY 2 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Man-made snow can be made as soft/light as natural snow but its not economical to do so. Its a balance between quality and quantity. When you make it you want to make as much snow per hour as possible by making heavier/wetter snow. It could be made lighter but you would probably end up with about 30% of the volume of snow than if you made it wetter. It costs the same per hour to make and you can groom the man-made snow in with natural snow so you wouldnt really know the difference. Somtimes really wet snow is made around the areas where you get on and off the lift on purpose to make the area more durable. Most snowboarders hate it but it makes a good base and the ojisan in the lift shack wont have to get off his ass as much to smooth out the ramp. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Hey Krusty, interesting post. I suppose I have been talking about old man-made snow, not the fresh stuff. Does low density man-made pack down the same as natural low-density snow? For some reason I have a bias that no matter what the original man-made crystals where like, they all settle and compact after a few weeks into the same kind of frozen white plastic. It feels different to ice, harder to edge on. Link to post Share on other sites
KRUSTY 2 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 I havent really studied snow as much as I should of considering my life use to revolve around the stuff. I dont think man made will last any longer or pack down any differently than natural snow if the original crystals of both are simalar regardless of wether any additive(eg snomax) in the man made snow has been used or not. I think grooming has a lot to do with snow pack as the tiller(the rotor on the back of the groomer which spins) smashes the snow and although it helps with ice it can be over used and destroys snow crystals. When driving the groomer you can adjust the depth of the snow being tilled and also the speed and direction of the tiller. You can also apply force or have the tiller floating. All of these things contribute to the snow pack on a resort as does temperature of the snow when groomed and how deep you cut into the snowpack with the blade on the front of the groomer. I think regardless of the snow being natural or man made its going to end up the same if in the same conditions. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 I’d ask you another question, but answering it might break your rate of 4 posts per year . Ah, what the hell. Are there different snow making techniques? Toque alluded to this above. From what I read, the French resorts use a method that makes slow-melting snow (thus damaging the underlying ecology as it hasn’t melted until late spring). Did you drive a Bully? Link to post Share on other sites
cal 6 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 I'm interested in that too. That "snow" looks really fine. (As in fine sugar). Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Looks relatively long that potential course there. Still I'd rather wait to get real snow. Link to post Share on other sites
KRUSTY 2 Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Ive only worked with the two most common types of snow making, air/water and fan/water systems and I havent worked in the Industry for a couple of seasons now so Im not up with the lastest technology. There always concern from various enviromental groups about snowmaking and possible damage it could do in spring regarding the thousands of litres of added water created when the snow melted and possible adverse affects it could have on streams, rivers etc. I havent heard any thing about slow-melting snow. I have snowboarded at Karuizawa on a really short slope in November some years back which was pretty much just crushed ice which they sprayed on to the slope out of a long hose. I guess its a way of making snow in warmer temperatures and to possibly get the base started but it was crap to ride on. Ive drove a Pisten Bully ocasionally but mainly drove a Bombardier and a Ohara(Japanese Groomer). Snowmaking was a pretty good job and I wouldnt mind doing it again in the future. It was pretty unreal with amazing sunrises, great enviroment to work in and finishing work as the lifts open to get the best runs. Link to post Share on other sites
Stanii 0 Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 hy guys, for the snowmaking u need three things; - water - cold temperatures - electricity and of course a snowgun For snowmaking usually u need temperatures below the zero, but it also depending from the humidity. If the humidity is enough low (example 20 % or so), then u are able to make snow at higher (near freazing) temperatures; +2, +3 C. If you have mild temperatures as well as high humidity, then you need some extras to make man-made snow, like chemicals or/and radioactive bacterias. Of course for the nature is not so good, and can be dangerous. In some part of the European Alps it isn't allowed, like in Germany or in Austria. The normal man-made snow holds out much more longer, than the natural snow. Why? In the man-made snow are the snowcrystals other (have an oher form, structure), than the snowcrystals in the natural snow. BTW, except Naeba is theren in Japan any skiresort with snowmaking-system? Link to post Share on other sites
Markie 0 Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Quote: Originally posted by Stanii: hy guys, for the snowmaking u need three things; - water - cold temperatures - electricity and of course a snowgun Excuse me, that's 4 things! I decided to give Fattwins a one week break so I thought I'd pick on someone else for a change! Actually, Karuizawa is also quite big into snow-making. But I've seen those snow-cannons in many places in Japan including Hakuba. Link to post Share on other sites
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