Niseko Probs

[Fattwins 0]

 Quote:

Type 2 - Long term residents in Japan who for a variety of reasons (few of them particularly flattering) like being the only foreigner in the village. There is a strong parallel with that Little Britain sketch about being the only gay in the village. These people resent the influx of foreigners because it means they are no longer as exotic or as unique as they once were. This group of people (comprised almost exclusively of men) would rather remain the only foreigner in the village and bitch about slow lifts, crap safety patrol policies and dreadful food rather than share Japanese ski resorts with visiting foreigners who might enable the resorts to actually make a profit or improve the facilities/policies and, dare I say it, force them to face some uncomfortable facts about themselves

pure BS and i dont care how you float it or who you get to defend that comment it is pretty racist. So most long-term residents have such low self-esteem? We obviously cant make friends and cant get girls either I gather right? I hear this BS form Asians all the time and it makes me sick.

The boys and girls living in Niseko have all said that it isnt that bad vs. the boys anf girls who were just vacationing in niseko over the last few years have said that it has changed so again where did you float that racist comment. Do you feel the same way about people that live in hong kong? if you feel that way then maybe you should think about all the chinese or japanese that live in the other parts of the world. There are far more of them living elsewhere then the... Long term residents in Japan who for a variety of reasons (few of them particularly flattering) like being the only foreigner in the village.

[Rag-Doll 0]

I'm sorry my comments have caused such angst. I didn’t realize the issue was such a sore point.

 

I simply wanted to offer up an observation after having read the discussion on this thread and reviews about Hirafu that it did strike me that there seemed to be two distinct groups of people expressing concerns about the number of foreigners in Niseko - tourists who don't appreciate they're part of the problem and long term Japanese residents who would rather not share their little piece of Japan with other foreigners.

 

Perhaps I was a bit indulgent about how I described the long term residents but let’s get real, where is their aversion to foreigners coming from? Quattro makes a valid point and I’ve shared the same sentiment during the times I’ve lived in Japan, but the dislike of an increase in the number foreigners isn’t always expressed in terms of troublesome foreigners, rather its the numbers of foreigners generally – where does that sentiment come from and what does it reveal about the person? I’ve noticed during the past 14 odd years that I have been visiting or working in Japan that there seems to be an inordinate number of people (mainly men) who live in Japan because they can’t get a gig in the real world. It seems that being a westerner and speaking English is the only requirement for lifetime employment. Perhaps these people are concerned that if too many other westerners visit Japan they’ll suffer by comparison. That is not to say that every foreigner in Japan falls into this category or even that anyone on this forum does, but it is a fact of life that foreigners live in Japan for a number of reasons – some good, some not so good. This isn’t about people living and working over seas or migrating to other countries, it is about people bitching about a change that is taking place in Niseko (and may well also take place in other major resorts around Japan) that is bringing a lot of benefit to the local community (both Japanese and foreigner) because they’re struggling with their own inadequacies.

 

This and the other remarks above are not racist – look up the definition of the term. Nor is it based on any expertise in Japanology, I’m making the observation about fellow foreigners and in some cases my own countrymen.

[Kumapix 0]

dude, I don't think that post is going to make anybody feel better.

 

"there seems to be an inordinate number of people (mainly men) who live in Japan because they can’t get a gig in the real world."

 

man, that's a gem!

[Yuki's Passion 1]

rag-doll,

 

>and long term Japanese residents who would rather not share their little piece of Japan with other foreigners.

 

do you mean Japanese or foreigners living in Japan?... If its Japanese then your audience is wrong as the numbers of Japanese on this board is pretty small. If its foreigners then obviously we are not Japanese, hence foreigners living in Japan would make more sense. Either way, what you say is obsurd. There are a few million foreigners living in Japan: oh yeah, I feel so special

 

If you look at the bulk of the argument there are 3 main points:

 

1) some peeps dont want drunken iddiots up there, down here or anywhere, foreign or Japanese for that matter. One obvious difference is Japanese dont get into fights very often, arent in your face acting like @ssholes (other than speaking Engrish to you) talkin $hit. Lets just face it, many foreigners do act like that.

 

2) powder gets eaten quicker. Yes, I know, booo****inghoo right? Wheres my tissue? N. American resorts its all gone before you can blink.

 

3) The mountain isnt challenging. This same argument will continue going around and around. Regardless, fact is, Niseko isnt as challenging as other resort areas.

[Kumapix 0]

nice sum up cb

[Rag-Doll 0]

CB

 

Sorry about the crap syntax, I was of course talking about westerners living in Japan on a long term basis, but I don't think westerners make up anything more than a relevatively minor fraction of all foreigners reisdent in Japan, do they? Perhaps things have changed since I was last there.

 

Apart from the above and perhaps the retarded comment(!), I agree with everything you're saying, I really do and point 3 was never any issue - depending on what you're after there are better resorts in Japan.

 

I was merely making an observation on the motivation people complaining about there being too many foriegners in Nisekoand that maybe the problem lies with them and not the visitors. Apparently that makes me a retarded racist.

[Fattwins 0]

and that sums up this guys crap. im in japan because i cant make it through life in a real job.

 

so i could then say every china-man in america opens a restaurant cause they cant get a real job.

[Kumapix 0]

we've been exposed!

[mattlucas 0]

You should change what you just wrote there FT

[Ocean11 0]

Rag-Doll, I think your comments about Type 2 people are spot on, apart from the fact that the type also includes women. In fact there's one like that in my neighbourhood who won't say hello.

 

A couple of years back there was a bit of spat on this very forum between a foreigner living in Hokkers who was crying traitor about another foreigner shilling for more customers. He was well in with the locals and it was his Japanese snow, and nobody else should be told about it. Amusing it was.

[Fattwins 0]

ocean the way he writes it you are a type 2.

 

he/she at no point in time has use the words "a few"

[Yuki's Passion 1]

yes, but of the 500,000 plus Japan born Korean they still continue to be "foreigners" in this country. Youre right, non-asian foreigners make up the smallest percent with Chinese and Korean in the lead by a long shot.

 

>and that sums up this guys crap. im in japan because i cant make it through life in a real job.

we already knew that

 

R.D.,

 

Youre probably right about "some" foreigners living here thinking theyre special and hot $hit. Maybe Ive just been here so long that just doesnt enter my thought process. There are tons of blokes who avoid making any eye contact with you or who dont wanna sit near you at a restaurant (this happened with Ewok FF on Valentines Day 2xs ). Id say what you say for some peeps is probably correct.

[Ocean11 0]

Fattwins, you really need to learn to read. The devil is in the details.

 

"It seems to be that a lot of complaints about there being too many Aussies and the overall increase in popularity of Niseko come from two distinct groups of people. ... Type 1 ... Type 2"

 

As I don't complain about there being too many Aussies, I don't fit in either Type 1 or Type 2. And if I were to complain, my complaints would be sufficiently eccentric and off-base not to fit into the 'a lot of complaints' bit.

 

Calm down and stop making wild and dumb accusations all the time.

[Rag-Doll 0]

No moron - the correct analogy would be that every Chinaman in the US is there because for some odd reason the locals regard his unusual features and ability to speak Chinese as being something special and so faced with the prospect of being a no hoper in his homeland, he hides out in the US where he can pretend something else and then bitches because visitors from his homeland show him to be the loser that he is.

 

But I didn't say that about every foreigner in Japan or about anybody on this forum. But it is obviously something that you feel sensitive about FT. The thing is, a lot of the westerners I know in Japan and more than a few nisei share this view.

[Yuki's Passion 1]

thats funny RD

[rach 1]

I have a question for the guys - why can't some of you seem to be able to discuss things without resorting to "moron" and the like insults?

[Rag-Doll 0]

This is all a bit silly. Let me retract my comments fully and without reservation. No offence was intended, except towards the end and then only in self defence.

 

PS. The above retraction was not at the request of the SJ.

[rach 1]

I find the discussion very interesting actually, I just don't get the way things sometimes need to go downhill quickly on topics that may be controversial. There are other words to use other than insults.

 

Must be a guy thing

 

I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels that way.

[Yuki's Passion 1]

Yes, Lets civilized!

[Ocean11 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by rach:
I have a question for the guys - why can't some of you seem to be able to discuss things without resorting to "moron" and the like insults?

There are clearly some certifiable morons, ignoramuses, peckerwoods and bedwetters on these forums, and occasionally they have to be reminded of it so that they can make their feeble attempts to reform themselves. It's a tiresome responsibility that those of us with full adult capacity should fulfil without too much complaint.

Rag-Doll, I'm sorry you retracted your insight, since it was only people who didn't understand it who objected to it. You could scarcely have caused a greater misplaced stir if you had accused somebody of being 'niggardly'.

(totally pro forma, insincere )

[Rag-Doll 0]

Thanks for the support Ocean. I really didn't intend to offend or at least draw as much flak as I did. I might think twice about sticking my head above the parapet next time in case I end up with the kind of love-in you’ve got going on Iran over on the Off Topic forum

[NoFakie 45]

Nice comments about Type 2s there, Rag Doll. I don't know how it relates to the folk commenting on Niseko, but I know exactly what you mean viz-a-viz Westerners in Japan. You do get folk (esp. whiteys) who've got a mix of territorialism and an elevated but fragile sense of self-worth acquired from Japanese people over-indulging them.

I've talked about it with my mates as the "rock star phenomenon".

[dale#1 1]

I totally agree with that. It does exist.

[bushpig 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Rag-Doll:
It seems to be that a lot of complaints about there being too many Aussies and the overall increase in popularity of Niseko come from two distinct groups of people.


Type 2 - Long term residents in Japan who for a variety of reasons (few of them particularly flattering) like being the only foreigner in the village. These people resent the influx of foreigners because it means they are no longer as exotic or as unique as they once were. This group of people (comprised almost exclusively of men) would rather remain the only foreigner in the village and bitch about slow lifts, crap safety patrol policies and dreadful food rather than share Japanese ski resorts with visiting foreigners who might enable the resorts to actually make a profit or improve the facilities/policies and, dare I say it, force them to face some uncomfortable facts about themselves.

Hmmmmm
Some nice backtracking and sidestepping there Ragdoll (your last few posts). But you did say that a lot of the complaints come from these 2 distinct people. Right? Most of the people posting on here who may be complaining about the situation are likely to fit Type 2. Therefore, you ARE, in fact, saying that we all fit that group in the sense that they are lving here (short, mid or long term). Nice summary of us all by the way. How long did you live here? How do you know what any of our backgrounds are with regards to reasons for being here, motivation for staying, or job prospects in our own countries? And do you really think that village analysis fits? I reckon the majority of the people on here live in large areas with hundreds, even thousands of other foreigners in the same area. Did you feel like you were the king of your "village" and were somehow special here? I think a lot of people might experience that thinking early on in Japan, but I reckon for most people this feeling is completely non-existant after a couple of years living here. You get used to being just another person here.

BTW, my original post to start this thread off, wasn't coming from the point of view of wanting Niseko all for myself. Hell, I live a long way away. I have no claims or feelings of possession on the place. It came from a comparison of my own experiences of Niseko with stories from two good friends who worked there both before and after the Aussie boom. I don't resent Aussies coming and enjoying it, or the locals making money from that. It is just a shame that the nature of the place SEEMS to have changed quite a bit from what it was. I will and have since chosen to go elsewhere, which is what many of you suggest ("Just go somewhere else if you don't like it"), but that doesn't mean I can't comment on it.

Anyway, this whole thing just keeps going around in a circle. Let's put it down eh?

Hey CB, nice one on working that 3rd point in there I was wondering if you were gonna try!

[bushpig 0]

It exists. But In my experience the rock star phenomenon is more in the 1-2 year crowd. Most people here long term aren't in that group.