Your view on what patrol should do at resort

[SerreChe 2]

I think it is a very good point by Montoya.

Some resorts use a lot of advertising with pics of off-piste but yet have hords of patrollers stopping people from going to these areas which is hypocritical.

 

At least Kagura's modern hands-off approach is very refreshing in Japan and deserves to be rewarded by them having more customers.

 

Things are changing(H47 DBD, Tsugaikei DBD, Arai conditional areas, Kagura's hands off approach), albeit slowly, as more patrons look for powder bliss. It is all about demand and supply and resorts will have to adapt or lose customers to the resorts which are more tolerant towards off-pist skiing.

 

In the old days, when snowboaders were not such a large group, they were banned in many places. Look what happened now.

 

The only problem is that if it becomes too commercial too fast then you will have people shredding the hell out of places were do not belong for lack of understanding of the risks.

 

As the off-pist terrain becomes more popular, every accident that happens will make resorts very reluctant to open-up further. So mayby it is good that changes happen slowly as BOTH resorts and some users need to educate themselves better.

 

As FT said, vote with your wallet and go to places with pro-active BC/off-piste management (if that is what you are interested in).

[SerreChe 2]

Oh, and by the way, thank you I-AM-PATROL for participating in the discussion. We are always very interested in hearing your comments and feedback from your perspective. It is great that people from both sides can discuss in the forum instead of having a one-sided discussion.

[Ocean11 0]

I think it would be good if patrol could hire themselves out as instructors. That would help to create a better atmosphere and communication. Patrol as facilitators rather than oppressors.

[Siren 0]

 Quote:

Patrol as facilitators rather than oppressors.

Everyone is an oppressor to you.

I think some of them also work as instructors. Those I 'met' are actually quite friendly. You know, I can be a grinning sycophant if necessary!

[its-a-clock 0]

 Quote:

In the old days, when snowboaders were not such a large group, they were banned in many places. Look what happened now.

I know what you're saying SerreChe, but surely this is a very different issue. Is it not the case that resorts do not open up some areas due to the costs/effort involved in opening them up. Allowing snowboarders on the same slopes as skiers doesn't involve that rather big stumbling block.

[SerreChe 2]

You are right its-a-clock, it is easier to let boarders mix with skiers than open-up terrain.

Training, costs, liability are all key points for resorts in that regard most likely. One approach could be: "we will not harrass you if you go there but ski at your own risks in un-prepared areas". With that approach, cost should be minimum, as for the liability issue I am not so sure though.

[I-Am-Patrol 0]

montoya

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and can you give me detailed information and advice regarding avalanches in the area

In my experience - no. The resort does not want to be responsible for people doing things outside of their limit and if people doing it is their own responsibility. Even so if something happen out there, some implication for resort. Always someone who is able to advise about it within resort I guess. In fact, many patrol might not be so educated in it anyway.

 

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If you know the reason for something it makes it easier to accept. If I knew there was a danger there that I hadn't seen for myself, I wouldn't go in there. Resorts need to provide more information

I basically think it would be nice but it will not happen I don't think. Anyway usually there is sign saying danger because of avalanche or something I think. Perhaps if you ask then they will answer it. But do you always need explain for everything in your life like that?

 

 Quote:

Some resorts use a lot of advertising with pics of off-piste but yet have hords of patrollers stopping people from going to these areas which is hypocritical

I think so. Actually I told it one resort I worked at and they said "it's イメージ" (like photo of product saying real one might change from photo!)

[mattlucas 0]

Good answers IAP

 

 Quote:

Originally posted by I-Am-Patrol:

The resort does not want to be responsible for people doing things outside of their limit and if people doing it is their own responsibility.

Who decides what my limit or abiltiy is?

 

And skiing resort I'm not even given the chance byt the resort to do things where I'm responsible for my actions.

Mainly skiing in the trees/off piste.

[Yuki's Passion 1]

>Who decides what my limit or abiltiy is?

 

Wouldnt that be the double black diamond club?

 

While its kinda a pain, petty I know, that type of progressive thinking is what Japan needs more of. Not closing off areas because "theyre dangerous" or because of "avalanche dangers" but creating policy whereby management and patrol can deal with those issues and not just brushing them under the carpet like they usually do.

 

We cant do it because....

 

a) it takes active critical thinking skills

 

weve never done it before so we just dont know.... well, go learn from the best - N. America or Europe

 

c) we just dont want to... is probably more accurate.

 

...for any of those answers theres a very simple solution. Look at Niseko and how progressive it is - thats why its Japan's number one powder mecca IMHO...

 

What Japan truly needs are for the top skiers/boarders who go abroad to take back that knowledge/wisdom and use it in changing Japan's resort policies. In the latest issues of Powder magazine and Bravoski (both in Japanese) all of these issues are being delt with. Its the management whos not responding to the customers needs/desires. Japanese still think skiing is limited to the perfect "S" carve

[sunrise 0]

Toque, I think "outside of their limit" is referring to outside the resort's limits not the rider's own personal limits.

[mattlucas 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Yamakashi:
>Who decides what my limit or abiltiy is?

Wouldnt that be the double black diamond club?

While I know you are just razzing me there
I have to say that the double black diamond has some of the lamest tree skiing of any resort. Low angle powder is not fun.

I have to say this to the Japanese managment
We can make our own decisions
We can go around a tree
We can go around a cliff
We can decide if the powder is too deep for our abilities
We can think for ourselves

And if we can't?
Then we have to figure out how to get ourselves out of the hole we have dug

[Fattwins 0]

Toque even whistler doesnt or wont let you decide everything on your own.

 

Japan could and is opening more but we have to wait a bit. Some areas as you know ie the chute that got me last year can never be opened. The risk of the snow pilling in there is too great!

I still love it, I still go there but there isnt a resort in the world that would oprn that up.

 

What japan needs is more patrol. volunteer patrollers would help take the presure off of patrol. You can not sweep a mountain like 47/goryu with the limited staff that they have.

[mattlucas 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Fattwins:
Toque even whistler doesnt or wont let you decide everything on your own.

Japan could and is opening more but we have to wait a bit. Some areas as you know ie the chute that got me last year can never be opened. The risk of the snow pilling in there is too great!
I still love it, I still go there but there isnt a resort in the world that would oprn that up.

Whistler does let you decide on your own unless there is avy danger. The entire mountain is pretty much fair game except for a few obviously closed areas. A beginner could easily go down a narrow couloir or off some cliffs. Up to the individual to make their decisions.

Yes that chute would never be at a hill but all the runs and cliffs further down the valley certainly would be

[Fattwins 0]

What I mean Toque is they decide when to open it or not, not you. They also cover their collective asres with signage mate. plus they have how many patrollers and arent in the red. Japan needs to open more terrain but that means more staff mate. Its not up to patrol to open more terrain man it really isnt.

 

Hills in NA are so expensive do you know why? insurance mate insurance. Do you know how many lawsuits there are every year? Every year some idiot blames the resort for the choices that they have made man. I had a suit against me at sun peaks the resort settled cause the insurance just wants to pay out.

[mattlucas 0]

I hear you FT

I'm just choosing not to listen

[ncorrenti 0]

It annoys me how our lives are governed by liability these days. Pretty much everything and anything involves disclaimers and release forms. It sucks.

[HighlyTrainedNovaTeacher 2]

One of the reasons it has become like that is because of moaners/complainers/pissartists and the like causing fusses at the smallest things. Businesses have to protect themselves.

[Fattwins 0]

id love to see a voluteer patrol service in Japan. As it stands now, there just isnt enough patrol to do the job, if the resorts opened all the trees per say.

[ncorrenti 0]

I agree. I can see how things have become like they have - but it still sucks.

 

The shitty part is, operators who are negligent are sometimes allowed to get away with being incompetant while others are forced to make huge settlements/payouts to moneygrubs. It's an unfair system.

[TJ OZ 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by nicole:
It annoys me how our lives are governed by liability these days. Pretty much everything and anything involves disclaimers and release forms. It sucks.

I have never been in the situation where I have wanted or needed to sue for liability. I hope to think that I would be completely honest with myself in such a situation and if I felt that it was my fault I would take the blame. If there could be say a million dollar payout then ask the question, would you abuse the system that is available.

[Fattwins 0]

Its now part of our culture really. Some lawyer comes and says that he can you money for 40% and at no cost to you. Its like free money. When I get hurt I usally look to blame someone else at first, then I come to my senses, I was the idiot.

[ncorrenti 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Fattwins:
Its now part of our culture really. Some lawyer comes and says that he can you money for 40% and at no cost to you. Its like free money. When I get hurt I usally look to blame someone else at first and then I come to my senses that I was the idiot.

Yeah, you're right. It's human nature to look to blame someone else first. Unfortunately, not everyone is reasonable like yourself. Most people would be inclined to chase the dollar. Unfortunately we all pay the price for this through ridiculously high premiums. I used to freelance and it cost me a ridiculous amount each year to insure myself, which is why I'm now working for the man.

[ricardo 0]

The only thing I would add to this discussion is this hypothetical situation...

 

5 days after a good powder dump i decide to duck the rope to get some freshies. Patroller busts me, takes my ticket, and I head out to the groomers to leave in shame. Just then I get nailed by some gumby careening out of control.

 

Which one of us is a bigger danger to others?

Which one is more common at a resort?

[rach 1]

Aren't they 2 completely different issues though?

[ricardo 0]

oh, I'm not saying that they should ignore one because the other is more dangerous, just that the resorts I've seen (granted, not in Japan) seem to have patrol out and ready to catch the riders going out of bounds when they're ignoring a much greater hazard in bounds. I think these priorities are BS.

I know a handful of people who have been injured for the day, the season, or their life getting nailed by someone out of control, and I have heard/read many more horror stories. Some assailants are apologetic, but my friend was out of commission for 2 years after a flailing skier rammed an edge in her back (she was standing) and he kept going. If 4 of the 5 patrollers at the top of the run were on the slopes this might not have happened or at least they might have caught and stuck him with the medical bills.