Ocean11 0 Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 I often read about people having their pass 'pulled' by the patrol, and I wonder what it could possibly mean. My pass is strapped to my arm, outside my jacket if it's a bit of paper, and inside if it's an electronic one. If some git on skis said to me "Give me your pass!", I'm sure I'd say "No!" If he then tried anything like actually physically taking it off me, then he might start moving down the hill with very unorthodox 'form'. I'm not some big tough guy or anything, but I sincerely believe that 'pulling' my pass would not be something a sensible person would attempt lightly. So what's the story here? If you don't hand it over, what recourse do they have? Does anybody have any experience of this? Do tell... Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 No experience of this (we're good boys on the hills), but as scouser would undoubtedly say : you're well 'ard. Link to post Share on other sites
talisker 0 Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Well, pass pulling is of course merely a turn of phrase. Of course you can say no but most patrollers in that situation would say "fair enough" and radio the lifties and tell them not to let you on. Not many would resort to wrestling, especially a foreigner. The trick is to carry a cheap "throwaway ticket" so that when you are pulled up you give them the dud whilst your real pass stays in your pocket. Link to post Share on other sites
enderzero 0 Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 I mentioned this in a thread some time ago, but at least in America it is a big time no-no to disobey a direct order from the ski patrol. You can, and most likely will, be arrested for tresspassing if you refuse to leave when they ask you to. I am confident that when this inevitably happens to me in Japan I can play the "dumb gaijin" card. Link to post Share on other sites
mogski 0 Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 In order to say no here in Japan and not get black listed and stopped from getting on the lfits you should carry an extra jacket in a back pack and change the one you got caught in on the way down or just wear an all black outfit with no distinguishing marks! Should be fine Link to post Share on other sites
DrEvil 0 Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 You can try the dumb gaijin card, but that might make them want to do you all the more. It can go either way. Link to post Share on other sites
klubhead 0 Posted November 10, 2002 Share Posted November 10, 2002 a lot of ski resort area land lies on national park territory so technically you can' t tresspass ( if the resort does lie on national park territory they cannot stop you from going out of bounds). they can stop you from riding the lift but they cannot physically restrain you or try to take away your lift pass. such action can be interpreted as assault. So if they do try to pull such a stunt, tell them YOU will call the police if they touch you!! Link to post Share on other sites
enderzero 0 Posted November 10, 2002 Share Posted November 10, 2002 And if they give you any more trouble, just tell them Klubhead said it was okay. Link to post Share on other sites
slime 0 Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 By buying the ticket are you not under the rules of the resort (which are in turn agreed with the state). So if they want to kick you out, they can. ? Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 I'm with klubhead on this... if you're not trespassing, they can sod off. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 If they put up a big sign by the ticket office laying down the law, saying what the ticket entitled you to, then I would have some respect for a system where your pass got pulled if you misbehaved. Most resorts seem to take the view that everybody is there to ride groomed runs, which is obviously a mistake on their part. The attitude to what you can and can't do seems to be so 'case-by-case' and without good foundation that somebody trying to take my pass or deny me service would seem equivalent to theft, and I would take the same attitude as I would if I had been robbed. Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Barlow 0 Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 In you were in a cinema and you got thrown out for doing talking loud or being noisy, would you think it the same if it was not laid out clearly and explicitly at the entrance that you cannot do that? Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 If I had a day pass to a cinema, and I was disturbing others, yes, they could pull it (like dangerous riding at a resort). If I popped out for a smoke... Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Barlow 0 Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 How about if you tried to climb up to the projection box. Because you wanted to. Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 I fail to see the analogy... leaving the resort area to ski on public land is one thing. Coming to your point, if I climbed all over their chairlift, ummm, yes, I believe they might possibly be entitled to curtail my access to the resort. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 Beat me to 'im miteyak. There's no equivalency there at all. The acceptable range of behaviour in a cinema is very limited, and indeed, in many cinemas, it's posted on the wall (no snogging, no mobile phones). The options for enjoyment are much broader at a resort (or should be), and the situation is probably more involved legally. If you were looking for a better analogy, how about 'using the Patrol Office as a toilet'? Now I can see that that might not be desirable from anybody's point of view... Link to post Share on other sites
peaker 0 Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 So I take it all you big "just say no" heroes are completely able and prepared to self rescue when you get injured skiing out of bounds. How about just saying sorry and next time go somewhere you can ride the kind of terrain you want without pissing everybody off and making a complete w***er of yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
klubhead 0 Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 no, not at all peaker. I board with friends and we carry beacons, shovels and probes. AND we could rescue someone better than 99% of ski patrols can. The point is just because someone says ' you can't do that' doesn't make it legally binding, plain and simple!! there is unfortunately a tendency for people to accept what people in positions of authority say. 2 years ago an aussie boarder was detained in the ski patrol office in hakuba for 45 minutes against his wil. have you ever heard of unlawful imprisonment? My point is don't follow rules JUST BECAUSE they are written on some quasi- official looking sign AND don't go bc unless you can! Link to post Share on other sites
Higuma 0 Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 I guess you fellows have a little more practical experience with this sort of thing than I do... but... I was told early on here that - As a Gaijin - don't ever get you butt arrested for as much as jaywalking here... I think another thread spoke about this once.... So, If the aforementioned is in any way close to accurate and it comes down to a "your word against theirs" senario with regard to unlawful confinment / tresspass / assault issue then how tough are you gonna be after a month in jail persona-nongratta and a quick deportation hearing... I don't think it takes much to get deported around here if you pisss off the right people... Comments????? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted November 13, 2002 Author Share Posted November 13, 2002 I think it's a case of the strong bullying the weak. Once they see that you're serious, when you start saying 'What's your name, and your superior's name?' and writing it down, then the attitude changes completely. I've had shouting matches with policemen, immigration officials, and yakuza, and I'm still here. And peaker, nobody's had to pull me out yet, and I don't generally go where that's likely. And anyway, what's the point of having a rescue function available if it's never used? Link to post Share on other sites
JEZx 0 Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Quote: I've had shouting matches with policemen, immigration officials, and yakuza, and I'm still here. Well thats not really a surprise is it. You must be real popular Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Peaker, you never did finish yer avalanche story...did you? Rather than rely on the resort for rescue, I prefer to gear myself up and accept responsibility for my actions. I dont believe we were saying we'd be impolite, only stand up for our rights in the correct situation once unauthorised parties had laid the gauntlet beyond the nicities of 'excuse me, would you mind most awfully not skiing there'. As for 'jay walk and yer outta here...' Link to post Share on other sites
peaker 0 Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 actually I did finish the avalanche story. You mean you didnt read it Miteyak!! I dont want to get into a fight about this but Ive been in Japan for a while and a lot of people take advantage of the system here. Pulling the Im special, Im a foreigner card is totally lame. If you want to change resort policies ect thats fine but why not do the job properly, learn Japanese and write or speak to the management. Youll get more respect and get a lot more done than being confrontational and making an idiot of yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
cheeseman 1 Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Offer the friendly patrol person a nice piece of cheese. That's a great way to make friends with them, and they'll be glad of the nutrition - not to mention the great fun taste - so even if they weren't previously cheesefans, they sure will be once you do that. And we'll all get along and be friends Link to post Share on other sites
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