Daily bath

[Slippery Jim 65]

Let's say you're saving 6man/year, Snowdude. At 300man it would take 50 years to amortize the installation cost.

I've read that homebuilders here target a 30-year lifespan for houses. I'd say you made out, and Dumbstick's neighbor lost.

[NoFakie 45]

We built our place six years ago and have storage heater-type underfloor heating and an eco-cute water heater, but if we were building now, I don't think we would go all denka. All-denka as practiced assumes that there will be cheap excess power from nuke plants during the night, and there isn't any more. Since the accident, overnight power has gone up by a much higher percentage than daytime power. The discounts for devices that use overnight power have also been cut quite heavily.

 

I suspect a lot of the nuke plants will end up being switched back on, but it will take years. I think this will happen because there are no alternatives are being actively pursued.

 

With solar panels, in most places you'll get a subsidy from the prefecture and another subsidy from your town to fit them. Even if the payback is 15 years, that's something like a 5% compounded return with no forex risk. The most expensive electricity is, the more sense it makes to generate it yourself. However, I wouldn't count on power companies continuing to buy solar from households at high rates, because they are all nearly bankrupt and don't want to buy unreliable, expensive electricity from people in the first place.

[NoFakie 45]

I didn't see the other posts, but in an average part of Japan, a 3 million yen solar rig will reduce your bills by much more than 6 man a year. More like 15 man, I would have thought for the 6kW plus rig 3 million (inc. gov subsidies) should get you. I think that would be too big to fit on most Japanese houses though.

[Chriselle 158]

I would like to get a few newer estimates. The one we got about 7 or 8 years ago was pretty dismal as the subsidies seemed trivial compared to what other areas were getting. I think I calculated that it would take something like 22~25 years or so to pay for itself.

[Thundercat 60]

We built our place six years ago and have storage heater-type underfloor heating and an eco-cute water heater, but if we were building now, I don't think we would go all denka. All-denka as practiced assumes that there will be cheap excess power from nuke plants during the night, and there isn't any more. Since the accident, overnight power has gone up by a much higher percentage than daytime power. The discounts for devices that use overnight power have also been cut quite heavily.

 

I suspect a lot of the nuke plants will end up being switched back on, but it will take years. I think this will happen because there are no alternatives are being actively pursued.

 

With solar panels, in most places you'll get a subsidy from the prefecture and another subsidy from your town to fit them. Even if the payback is 15 years, that's something like a 5% compounded return with no forex risk. The most expensive electricity is, the more sense it makes to generate it yourself. However, I wouldn't count on power companies continuing to buy solar from households at high rates, because they are all nearly bankrupt and don't want to buy unreliable, expensive electricity from people in the first place.

 

I'm not entirely sure about this but I recall reading a recent article that outlined some of Abe's reforms for the electricity sector and there was something about forcing power companies to buy solar back from households (maybe by 2015?). I also recall something about the liberalization of the market and abolishing price controls... wonder what that will do to the price of electricity?

[Chriselle 158]

Our resident Abe-tastic supporter Pie Eater should be along shortly to quell any concerns of electricity price hikes....

[pie-eater 207]

No need to worry, Abe is jolly well on the case and doing his 'Tasticness right at this moment.

 

There'll be no fannying about at all, you'll see!

 

 

 

There'll be no fannying about at all, you'll see!

As you can see in the above photographic evidence.

No, not one bit of fannying about.

[DumbStick 13]

We have a gas boiler.

DumbStickess insisted on having her stove for cooking, she can't do with electic only cooking.

That was a huge deal for her.

[Go Native 70]

Go Native lived in Niseko, not Japan, and so can be forgiven for not knowing anything about Japanese customs but....

 

The tradition is to get clean and wash yourself properly before you get into the bath.

Therefore the bath water effectively does not become grimy with that gaijin dirt.

 

 

More importantly, unlike most of you guys, I was already married before coming to Japan. I've never had a Japanese partner to bring me up to speed on Japanese customs within the privacy of your own home bathroom. So I doubt it made much difference where I was living. I've never been a bath person anyway.

[Slippery Jim 65]

Thanks for the scoop, Mr Wigs. I was just extrapolating off-the-cuff from Snowdude's numbers. Nice that it's a bit more friendly on the amortization.

We also are all-denka, and I'm not so sure either that it's a plus, especially now. We didn't have a choice, however, as our condo was a joint Tepco/Tokyu project so the whole building is denka only.

[NoFakie 45]

All denka is fantastic for apartment buildings because of the risk of fire and gas leaks. IH hobs are also easier to clean, which is good for rentals. Our IH hob is well powerful, so we're happy with it as a cooker.

 

For an idea of the actual cost of fitting solar, have a look at the forums on kakaku etc.

 

I think the biggest solar company in the world went into administration this or last year over in China, and the biggest Japanese maker, Sharp, nearly went under too. I don't know the full story at Sharp but it sounds like they made massive investments in solar PV and flat screen displays 10 years ago, only to see their margins wiped out by strong competition in both fields from other Asian countries.

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

I calculate the payback period for solar occasionally, and it hasn't come below 20 years or so yet. We do have gas for cooking, which proved useful after the earthquake when there was no electricity, but in principle it would be nice to be less dependent on hydrocarbons. (And who knows, maybe next time the electricity will be fine, but gas mains broken.)

 

Solar seems to be taking its sweet time becoming affordable on its own merits, though.

Quite frustrating, actually.

[Chriselle 158]

That kind of leads me to think it's a dead end technology....

[HeatherLocklearRocks 1]

If TEPCO's in charge, I'm in!!

[NoFakie 45]

I calculate the payback period for solar occasionally, and it hasn't come below 20 years or so yet. We do have gas for cooking, which proved useful after the earthquake when there was no electricity, but in principle it would be nice to be less dependent on hydrocarbons. (And who knows, maybe next time the electricity will be fine, but gas mains broken.) Solar seems to be taking its sweet time becoming affordable on its own merits, though. Quite frustrating, actually.

 

Solar definitely seems expensive and is sold in Japan based on the price per kw, just like they try to convince you that houses should be priced per tsubo. It's pretty brainless because a system that's twice as big only has double the panels (assuming the same ones), which only make up half the total cost, if that. The rest of the equipment takes pretty much the same amount of effort to install, but just needs to be slightly bigger. The installer won't have to turn up twice and put up a scaffold twice to fit a bigger system. There won't be twice the wiring. It should only be a days work or so to fit the thing anyway.

 

So if you're getting a system, it makes sense to get the biggest one you can and get an itemized bill for panels, transformer, wiring and installation. Don't get sucked into the price per kw BS. Farmers put up big solar rigs in their fields when it was 48 yen a kWh guaranteed certainly didn't pay some stupid multiple of a cost per kW.

 

If we didn't have the snow, I reckon we'd get solar. Our roof is really steep, so snow building up on the panels wouldn't be a concern, but I'm worried that snow or snowmelt would get under them and freeze, opening up gaps in the roof or pushing the panels off it. However, Chubu Denryoku have said they've applied to the Abe man to put up daytime power to about 35 yen a kw from next April, so it might be worth getting panels just for the power we use ourselves if that is the price we are going to have to pay for someone else's electricity.

[DumbStick 13]

Yes that price per tsubo thing is just nuts.

I remember my head being done in by it when we first discussed prices for our house.

Nuts.

[KlingKlang 1]

I never used to enjoy baths before I came here but love it now. Always look forward to it.

It's just a very different experience to back home. And so much better.

[HoTRoD 2]

Bath is something I look forward to every day.

 

How hot do you have it?

 

We have ours set to 43C. I could even do it up at 44C, and sometimes I put it up to 44C if I go after her.

 

[Alexander L 80]

44???? That would give you a real hot rod.

[Tachypsychia 13]

I just discovered this part of our bath but the apartments were built in the 60's so its incredibly small. I can't sit in it comfortably. I left the water from yesterday and after a shower I'll try it out to see if I want to leave the water. I like the idea of using it for laundry after you're ready to drain it though. We don't have a hot water tap to the washer so it might help with presoak.

[snowdude 44]

We have ours set at 42-43 in winter which is more than hot enough.

I can handle a bath up to 46oC. One of the onsens in Kofu has a bath at 46 and it stings when you get in.

 

Hottest one I have tried though was in Izu that was 50oC it was fcking hot!

[muikabochi 208]

I like nice and hot too. 43 ours is set at.

[grungy-gonads 54]

The feeling of getting in a really hot (not too hot) bath really is great.

 

Gets a bit boring after a while but I love the first bit.

[7-11 2]

My g/f literally is in the bath/shower for close to an hour every day.

 

15 minutes is good for me.

[DumbStick 13]

Still really love the daily bath and enjoying a different 'onsen' every day with those powder things you put in. I like the cloudy ones.

Nice smells. I had Kusatsu Onsen last night. I was expecting bad egg smell, but it was surprisingly flowery!