dyna8800 3 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Reading muikabochi's thread, I wondered if resorts in Japan listen to the voice of the customer (VOC). Getting people to the resort is the first hurdle, but after that, treating them well enough that they decide to return is another. For example, historically, Prince Resorts would not open up all lifts during the week, even with fresh dumps of powder. Too much expense for a few lifties, electricity, patrol, etc.... Almost all management can see is the savings, but do they see how many people do not return (or not go due to negative reviews) due to such practices? Let's see how many suggestions we have for making the various skijo better! Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Do a survey of customer satisfaction and improvements. Link to post Share on other sites
dyna8800 3 Posted February 9, 2010 Author Share Posted February 9, 2010 RobBright, do a Google search for "Ski Resort Web Questionnaire Prince Hotels & Resorts" By filling the questionnaire, you are also entered into a drawing for a pair of lift tickets for next season. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 One example I would use from up here was more an incredible missed opportunity than anything else. When the foreign skier market started growing exponentially year by year the need for ski lessons in english also grew exponentially. The ski school run by the resort though did not hire any foreign ski instructors to meet this growing demand. As a result we now have two foreign run ski schools in Hirafu meeting this growth market. One is owned by the same foreign company who owns Hanazono and the other is run by one of the foreign tour operators in town. I have nothing against these businesses as they grew out of the unmet demand. Still how many ski resorts in the world do you know of that have 2 major ski schools that are not affiliated with the resort owner? An incredibly big missed opportunity by Tokyu who already had a large ski school running here but management did not take advantage of a new growth market to the resort. All that foreign cash lost to 2 other companies who stepped in to meet demand... Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Likewise rental Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I see some closed lifts all the time here in the Alps. Avi prevention? Not quite sure what's the decision making process about lifts. Some places in Austria have really poor service in huts serving food. Slow at taking orders and serving. I'm not sure what can be done in Japan. Maybe lift tickets for 2, 3, 4 hours? Link to post Share on other sites
Metabo Oyaji 71 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Here is a suggestion that would not cost much money, but would make it a lot easier for some families to visit ski areas: pet facilities. For example, dog runs in the base area; some ski areas do have these, such as Edelweiss and some place near Karuizawa, as I recall. And Edelweiss did get a visit from us last year due in part to the presence of the dog run. Also, pet-friendly hotels -- either rooms where Gonta can sleep with the family, or at least some cages available. I've seen cages set up in simple cabins (like the kind you can find at the home improvement store) in the yards of hotels, so it need not be an expensive feature to add. Again, there are some places that do this, like Listel Ski Fantasia and Tangram Ski Circus, I believe. And there are some pensions here and there. But more would be welcome. Link to post Share on other sites
Jimmer 2 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Originally Posted By: Go Native One example I would use from up here was more an incredible missed opportunity than anything else. When the foreign skier market started growing exponentially year by year the need for ski lessons in english also grew exponentially. The ski school run by the resort though did not hire any foreign ski instructors to meet this growing demand. As a result we now have two foreign run ski schools in Hirafu meeting this growth market. One is owned by the same foreign company who owns Hanazono and the other is run by one of the foreign tour operators in town. I have nothing against these businesses as they grew out of the unmet demand. Still how many ski resorts in the world do you know of that have 2 major ski schools that are not affiliated with the resort owner? An incredibly big missed opportunity by Tokyu who already had a large ski school running here but management did not take advantage of a new growth market to the resort. All that foreign cash lost to 2 other companies who stepped in to meet demand... It's quite common in Europe for there to be more than one ski school in a resort. In North America though it's unheard of, in Vail the other month some freelance instructors got arrested and fined! Would Tokyu have been able to stop other ski schools in this way, in a legal sense? They definitely missed a massive opportunity here though, however it would have required a pretty huge change on their behalf in order to accomodate English speaking staff, not suprised Ski Japan and Harmony got the jump on them. I was discussing the issue of Hirafus slightly antiquated lift system the other day, and one of the reasons suggested was that as Tokyu don't own much of the real estate around town, the boom in prices hasn't actually helped them much, leaving them lacking in cash to invest on lifts. Any idea whether this is correct? Are they planning on building any new lifts? I would love to see a quad where family is. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Good Point Jimmer, I reckon they need a high speed quad or a gondola running alongside the family (our thereabouts) - there is a huge amount of people trying to start their day right there, and only likely to increase. Leave the family pair for those actually riding the family run, and get the masses up to somewhere near the top of the Ace Quad in quick smart fashion. Would REALLY speed things up! Metabo, I never even thought about pets - probably because I have no snow closer than a plane flight away, but makes sense for people living within driving distance. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Originally Posted By: Jimmer I was discussing the issue of Hirafus slightly antiquated lift system the other day, and one of the reasons suggested was that as Tokyu don't own much of the real estate around town, the boom in prices hasn't actually helped them much, leaving them lacking in cash to invest on lifts. Any idea whether this is correct? This is correct and goes back to missed opportunities for revenue. Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Some resorts seriously need to reposition the lift systems that they do have (whether old or not). Countless resorts in Japan have done nothing to try and accommodate snowboarders and their lift systems leave us skating between areas (even uphill sometimes). Several places I'll probably never go back to because of this problem. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 No doubt you have Zao in mind as you hear that from a fair few people. I wonder how much cash is needed to "move a lift"? Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Probably quite expensive. In some cases it would be simply extending the existing lift by several meters. +1! I was thinking of Zao (another big one for me is Nozawa). Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Extending a ski lift might sound 'simple' in theory, but is it in practice? I can't imagine that resorts are oblivious to these things. Link to post Share on other sites
dyna8800 3 Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 It is much less expensive to install a new lift and leave the old one standing... Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I'll bet you that some resorts are completely oblivious to that issue. IMHO, I imagine that there are only skiers who are making decisions at these resorts as the management are probably a bunch of old dinosaurs who have surrounded themselves with a bunch of old dinosaurs. Link to post Share on other sites
ILoveZao 8 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 In the case of Zao, you are incorrect. Of course they are well aware of it. With so many people visiting, do you not think that the opinions come back to them? It is not so simple. The mountain lifts are owned and operated by different companies. Who will pay? Just that company, or the mountain as a whole? And, do you have a few oku en at hand to spend? Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Originally Posted By: Go Native .... Still how many ski resorts in the world do you know of that have 2 major ski schools that are not affiliated with the resort owner? An incredibly big missed opportunity by Tokyu who already had a large ski school running here but management did not take advantage of a new growth market to the resort. All that foreign cash lost to 2 other companies who stepped in to meet demand... Plenty, in Austria. This perception of missed oppotunity by Tokyu is just a subjective point of view driven by profit and monoply. I see it differently. It becomes an incentive for people to go and open a business. Healthy competition is an advantage for the business and customers. Having business there with foreign involvement is not just generous but a intelligent master plan. Practical and diversity gives strong advertising effect because these business will take that up. Will have a stronger effect and word will spread. Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I'm glad to hear that Zao is aware of the problem. As a total ski destination I thought it was top notch... but if I had gone there to only snowboard I would have been a little disappointed. That beautiful day on Monday will go down in my memory as one of the most amazing snowboarding experiences I've ever had. Think I was very lucky to have been there then! Anyway, the lifts use the exact same system that they have in Niseko. Why can't the various lift operators come together and work to fix the problems that they are aware of? Wouldn't it make sense to form an organization that can divide up the profits and save for future renovations or maintance? Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I do agree with GN that in hind sight, resorts have missed the timing when to make improvements on infrastructure. Pity that instead of opening up new ski-jyo, they should have sought investment for this. But if it did, would the profit cover that investment now? I have no idea and this is just assumption. Probably easier to plan from scratch than incorporating with existing interests. Like ILZ says, it's not easy. As far for me, any lift is better than a rope tow, but maybe they can put a short one in between the lifts. Then again, I'm prepared to hike a bit in the slack country, I have no problem walking between lifts. Link to post Share on other sites
dyna8800 3 Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 Originally Posted By: Mamabear I reckon they need a high speed quad or a gondola running alongside the family (our thereabouts) - there is a huge amount of people trying to start their day right there, and only likely to increase. Leave the family pair for those actually riding the family run, and get the masses up to somewhere near the top of the Ace Quad in quick smart fashion. Would REALLY speed things up! Be careful of what you wish for. In the bubble era, they put in many lifts right next to the existing lifts. While that solved the "problem" of standing in line, it resulted in some very crowded slopes. Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Originally Posted By: Black Mountain Probably quite expensive. In some cases it would be simply extending the existing lift by several meters. +1! I was thinking of Zao (another big one for me is Nozawa). Zao, is actually not that bad once you get to know it. However, for snowboarders who go there for one day and get stuck on the left side of the mountain it can be a very unenjoyable experience. I am going to Zao this Saturday. It is looking good. Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I was about to say that too.... if you know what to expect and plan you can avoid most of the annoyance at Zao. If you go without knowing or looking at the plan though there are one or two annoying areas. Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Yep, definitely. In fact, my friend and I were able to board every run the first day we were there. We covered the whole mountain and even hit up the good runs several times. We had so much fun that we even hiked a hill nearby (a couple hundred meters) at the end of the day to get fresh tracks. The skating didn't slow us down too much! Link to post Share on other sites
dyna8800 3 Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 Quite frankly, I do not think that the Japanese ski/snowboard schools would have been able to handle the foreigners. Let's see...start out the lesson with some stretching, calisthenics, then highly rigid instruction, lots of drills and not a lot of free skiing/riding which we instructors call "mileage". For rental, are you saying foreigner sizes or ??? What was the opportunity there? Link to post Share on other sites
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