BagOfCrisps 24 Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I have a question. Which is better between Nisiko and Hukaba? And are there any places to drink beer in those places? Is there an ATM? Can I get the bus from Sydney? What are the courses like? Which has the best snow. And is it expensive? Can I buy a brand watch at there? Please send the results to me by post as I won't be coming back. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Originally Posted By: Fattwins Skiing is changing with biglines taking over as the kids move from the terrain park. Whistler is in many ways is like Hakuba, sick terrain, snow up high most of the season, access to snowfields. The terrain draws people as much if not more than the promise of snow (whistler). The job behind marketing is to highlight only the good points and never the bad. So Niseko has never had a bad season in the eyes of marketing and they are good at marketing. Hakuba just plain sucks at marketing itself cause during the bubble it didnt have to. Happo was the king, Tsugaike was packed and Iwatake was a highway of people. Those years although good tainted how hakuba could have marketed itself. What is it Fattwins you think the success of Niseko is just because of slick marketing? Or that Hakuba could have the same success if it just marketed itself better? Frankly I don't accept this and having worked for a couple of the larger companies in Niseko nor do I agree that the marketing is all that great. Few companies here that I know of actually employ anyone with any experience in marketing at all (and I know most people in town). In fact we've hardly had to do anything to market the place other than get a few people over here. Word of mouth has taken care of the rest. Niseko just has a great combination of snow, terrain, accommodation and nightlife that appeals to the bulk of the skiing punters out there. Sure big mountain terrain extremists like yourself may not find Niseko to your taste but it's not like companies here are marketing to the elite echelon of skiers/boarders like yourself anyway. Hell we have more than enough people coming here as is! Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 First GN lets not call them punters, I hate that term. Not everyone can ski great but they can still enjoy the experience. Plus it doesnt paint us in a good light to use such a phrase. No marketing? Look up at the top of most ski websites in Auz, and youll find an AD for Niseko. Look at most auzzie ski mags and youll find 50000 bucks in ADs for Niseko in each issue. Thats a pretty good marketing/advertising for a start. The fact that your coveted highend rentals are always sold out, just shows that what is said here wont make a difference. I dont tell people that they wont enjoy powder. I will say that it is flat cause it is flat. The steepest run at Hirafu is 21degrees average. 21 degrees is not steep that is mid level course anywhere else in the world. 37max 21 average 403 meters Im not extreme far from it. I want a challenge not death. You might love the powder at that steep but Im sorry I just dont. My point has always been that there is more to Japanese skiing than just Niseko. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Ahem, excuse me proprietors, please make way for the opinions that counts, the customers. The pure simple fact is that the MAJORITY of skiers are RECREATIONAL and are NOT expert skiers and the mere thought of having a 99.92% chance of having dry bone powder up to one's waist is enough to swipe the credit card People like me will keep going to Niseko for the love of it. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 The customer counts but there are many place to get waist deep dry powder many places. Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 I've had waist deep powder every time I have been to Hakuba, including this last season which was the shittiest I have seen there. Link to post Share on other sites
Hokkaidough 4 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Ah... but it wasn't Niseko powder. I want to visit Hakuba next season to see for myself. Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 I also got plenty of powder in Niseko both times I went there. And the powder I had there, while it admittedly came a bit more often, was no better than the dump days I got in Hakuba. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Didn't say there wasn't marketing FT just that it's not neccesarily all that slick. Hell a fair amount of marketing material out there was written by myself and I majored in Science at uni . Sure there's plenty of money here to throw together a few ads for magazines. Also didn't realise that 'punters' was a derogatory term?? Please explain what it means to you. Anyway I'm not writing here representing any company so why do I have to worry about using punter? It's a common enough term used by locals here for the hordes that invade each winter. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 I often wondered who was responsible for the crappy brochures and emails inviting me to coctails to listen to powder piping.. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Ok I dont want to call people punters as they could be a customer. That term could be considered a turn off or a bad attitude on my part. Feel free to use the term if you like. Alot of money to throw around is nice. Should be a few more hakuba stalls this year at the trade shows i hope. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Believe me I would be more than happy for other resort areas to gain in popularity and enjoy some of the growth we've had here. What Hakuba really needs is better accommodation options. So you just need a Hokkaido Tracks or West Canada Homes to start building western style accom there and the hordes will follow.....it worked here. Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Id rather Hakuba didnt have that GN. You guys can keep that to yourselves though Im sure nisekorealtors is raking in the cash of that...or whoever else is doing it. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Are there high end hotel options in Hakuba? Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 HPL baby! Link to post Share on other sites
Retired Morris Dancer 0 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 La Neige Higashikan (it's on the SJ section) Link to post Share on other sites
gerard 6 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Originally Posted By: Go Native Also didn't realise that 'punters' was a derogatory term?? Please explain what it means to you. Anyway I'm not writing here representing any company so why do I have to worry about using punter? It's a common enough term used by locals here for the hordes that invade each winter. From the urban dictionary: >The guy who has all the gear and talks like he nails shit, but actually sucks. You may see the punters in the lodge talking about how sick their day was while sippin their latte's and waiting for their SUV's to warm up. "That guy sure talked a lot of smack, but he turned out to be a punter." I think this was the intended meaning earlier in the thread, so I agree -- Best not to use the term. About advertising -- I guess Niseko is getting help from foreign marketers abroad because everything that I've seen in Japan is consistent with Go Native's description --They seem as inept as any other major Japanese resort at marketing to foreigners. But that's just what I've seen in Japan. They don't even seem to have the basics down though. --like making a proper ski map, compiling accurate stats about things like snowfall and terrain area, giving the runs and lifts more creative names than things like 'Challenge Course'. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Niseko United have a decent map, a decent website, up to date info and which lifts are operating etc. Useful site, but dominated by Alpen and Kogen Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 After surfing there I really have to disagree there. PDFs are good you can do so much but, PDFs are a resource hog. If you use a slow computer you just get frustrated. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 ger that urban disctionary description of punter does happen sound a hell of a lot like half the people who come to Niseko each winter I only wish I could get some time off in winter to come down and try the fields in Hakuba...... Link to post Share on other sites
2pints-mate 0 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Any of the punters look ike these ones Link to post Share on other sites
Mantas 3 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Originally Posted By: ger --They seem as inept as any other major Japanese resort at marketing to foreigners. But that's just what I've seen in Japan. They don't even seem to have the basics down though. --like making a proper ski map, compiling accurate stats about things like snowfall and terrain area, giving the runs and lifts more creative names than things like 'Challenge Course'. What about a decent shuttle bus, surely they could do better than the Go Genki set up. Niseko gets swept every 20min with a free service that does the whole village. Punter- Seems to have a different meaning down here. Punter just means regular guy. If someone called me a punter I'd take no offence Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 I used to like the "No-Name" pair lift. Prefer that to the new name "Swinging Monkey Genitals". Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 I would have thought "swinging monkey genitals" would be right up your alley, so to speak, Thursday. Link to post Share on other sites
kaiser soce 0 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Originally Posted By: Mantas Originally Posted By: ger --They seem as inept as any other major Japanese resort at marketing to foreigners. But that's just what I've seen in Japan. They don't even seem to have the basics down though. --like making a proper ski map, compiling accurate stats about things like snowfall and terrain area, giving the runs and lifts more creative names than things like 'Challenge Course'. What about a decent shuttle bus, surely they could do better than the Go Genki set up. Niseko gets swept every 20min with a free service that does the whole village. Punter- Seems to have a different meaning down here. Punter just means regular guy. If someone called me a punter I'd take no offence Yeah... Didn't know punter was a derogatory term either. Link to post Share on other sites
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