peterson 0 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Patriotic, patriotism. OK, ok - I know generally what it means, but what does it mean for you? Seems people have different feelings on what it means. I'm just wondering what it means to everyone here, I'm sure we'll get lots of different opinions. This is not a country-specific mail, by the way Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Supporting England in the World Cup! Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Doing the 'right thing' by your fellow countrypersons, even if it conflicts with your wider moral integrity. Following beliefs developed through countrycentric prejudice rather than rationale. I see patriotism (as i've mentioned before) as the 'hello kitty' of nationalism. patriotism, for the most part, can be seen as a harmless affiliation to one's birthplace, but it's intrinsically linked to a potentially more sinister pattern of behaviour. Link to post Share on other sites
MistaSparkle 0 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Patriotism is something that strengthens the conept of "US" and "THEM". I can't think of any benefit that patriotism has to offer mankind in the modern world with a global economy and general interconnectedness. Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Forgot to say, I don't like the image it has either. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Patriotism in itself is a neutral thing - defined as love of your country, or devotion to your country, it doesn't have to be sinister. If you love the constitutional makeup of your country and seek to maintain that through constitutional means, then it can be a very positive thing. The deeper your understanding of the history of your country, the better the quality of your 'love' and 'devotion' are likely to be. Of course, the opposite is true too, which is the more commonly seen face of patriotism. Patriotism can also be the starting point for the appreciation of other cultures too, although more often it isn't. Personally I don't have any particular love or sense of devotion towards my country, so I guess I'm not much of a patriot. However, I have a lot of affection for many aspects of England. I also feel shame when England doesn't live up to the highest standards, which is very often. As a somewhat irrelevant aside, I find flag-burning a very offensive thing to do. Irrespective of who is burning another country's flag, I find it a very mean, low, thoughtless sort of gesture. Link to post Share on other sites
merryJim 1 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 As much as I love where I come from, I'm can't really label myself as a partiot either. In fact I sometimes squirm around in discomfort for the most part when I hear overt feelings like that coming from people. Link to post Share on other sites
rach 1 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Not much to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites
snowboard_freak 0 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 I like my country! Thats about as patriotic as i get. I'm not passionate about it really. But i am proud to be an Aussie. Flag burning really p!sses me off as well Ocean. It really rubs me the wrong way. It's just pointless and doesn't achieve anything. Well, apart from p!ssing off some people. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Hockey eh The stanley cup eh. Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Thats probably what it's meant to achieve.... Link to post Share on other sites
base40 0 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Not much, I like my home thats about it. Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 As long as people proudly wave flags, others are going to proudly burn them ... Capturing flags, burning flags, stomping on them is an age old tradition of rebellion, and whilst I find it rather pointless as a gesture, I can think of worse ways for groups to vent their anger at the institutes of a nation. Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Bollox all Link to post Share on other sites
nekobi 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 re burning a flag... I'm no lawyer or anything, but i remember studying about it in a government class in high school. it's perfectly within the US first admentment to burn the flag. it's freedom of expression and although some may find it really offensive, i think it's important that people have the right to do it. i don't think it's a pointless gesture bc if it makes people so angry, then that shows how powerful its message is. i think people should be free to openly critize their own government, esp thru nonviolent means such as flag burning. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I agree that people should be free to do it, but believe that they should refrain from doing it. It signals contempt and hatred for the whole country whose flag is burned, and for all the people in it, and I can't see how that can ever be justified. Similarly I dislike the idea of burning effigies for the hatred it implies, but at least there the scope of the insult is less broad. Link to post Share on other sites
enderzero 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Just to be perfectly honest when I see an American flag being burned I do not take it as a personal insult. I see it more as a broad statement of dislike for what the country stands for. I like what you said nekobi. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 I'm sure some people burn flags when the international news media aren't there or even when they are, on days when any hope of coverage on that country's news is a lost cause because of more important issues like David Beckham's new haircut. I think it's as much about venting anger than anything else. It doesn't particularly bother me anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
kintaro 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 We would rather starve than sell our national honor - Gandhi Sorry, guess I'm in a quote kinda mood this week.. God Save the Queen! Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Yeh...the gestapo, Pol Pot and Saddam's elite national guard were patriots too. The US prides itself on its freedom of speech and the "marketplace of ideas". But in the current climate, it's hard to see where rational debate and the freedom to disagree stop, and blind acceptance of anything and everything without examination or debate begins. I guess maybe I spent too long in school and abroad. Around my town, any discussion is modeled after what people know best: TV shows like Jerry Springer, Ricky Lake, etc. where you can only talk for 2 seconds before getting interrupted and shouted down by a meaningless, emotional slogan. They said I wasn't patriotic because I lived in Japan and Europe for a number of years and speak a couple other languages. They said I was a "liberal" even though I voted Republican in every election since high school, including for Bush. I said, Let's get Arabs to assassinate and murder the terrorists in their own countries", and they called me an Arab Lover... There's not much point in engaging Patriots in discussion around here. Why now we even have the "Patriot Act", the worst attack on the US Constitution, Bill of Rights and personal freedoms ever...there's an even worse Patriot Act II under congressional review right now, ready to turn the US into a "show me your papers" kind of country with a national ID card, people being arrested and held indefinitely without being charged or access to legal representation...the National Criminal Information Center will no longer have to make "reasonable efforts" to verify information so their database will be corrupt and you can be picked up as a terrorist or criminal just because somebody once said you were and that info got into the computer... Nobody around here has even heard of this stuff. They are too busy watching CNN, where everything is still hunky-dory. It may be that these lazy, smug, manipulated, ignorant do-nothing happy fools will continue to squander their hard-won civil rights and get what they deserve in the end, while proudly driving around with their "I support Freedom", "Proud to be an American", and "I Stand for Liberty" bumper stickers... I better stop now. I am getting upset again! Maybe I should move to a different town or something. Link to post Share on other sites
mikazooki 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 yeah, like i said elsewhere, too much patriotism is a very very dangerous thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Stefan 0 Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 How about too much apathy? Personally patriotism for me is being called a " sheep shagger" whenever I mention where I'm from! I'm not afraid of showing my patriotic side when I feel like it, as a rather small and some might say insignificant country, I find myself explaining to MANY people from outside Europe (and a few within) the location and history of Wales. So I guess you could say I am patriotic. I think many people from smaller lesser known countries are also. Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Mr Matthews, you'll never have to explain that to Mogski. He's from New Zealand and he told me they invented gum boots and velcro gloves... Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Mr M -where abouts in Wales are you from then? Link to post Share on other sites
Stefan 0 Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Cardiff. Yipee As for gum boots and velcro gloves, we don't go in for all that hi-tech gear in Wales, we form a close bond with the animal, maybe take them out for dinner (lamb chops is a no no), catch a movie and then there like putty in your hands. bahhhh bahhh Link to post Share on other sites
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