Tax included

[nzlegend 1]

from April they tell me that all shops in Japan will include tax in the price of the object for sale, no more subterfuge and confusion as tax gets added.

About time too, when I buy something that says 485yen on the sticker I expect to pay 485 yen, thats the way it should be.

[Markie 0]

Honto desu ka? Sugoi!

[rachael 0]

Massive headache if you're a shop.

[cal 6]

I always thought it was stoopid having it seperate anyway, but the new things just makes things seem more expensive. I think some places are actually taking advantage of this to hike prices.

 

And a shohizei hike will be more tempting for those evil decision makers as well, don't you reckon?

[enderzero 0]

What is the reasoning behind this? Where is it coming from? Shops or govt?

 

Possibilities:

 

1 - excuse for shops to raise prices across the board on everything.

 

2 - govt wanting to flat tax a stores sales.

 

ideas?

[woywoy 0]

As far as I know the prices will not change this year. The only thing that will change is the way prices are displayed on goods.

 

Now you have the price displayed on the product but as a tax-excluded price. The price you actually pay at the cash register will not change. You will just have the exact amount you will pay for the item in question in your head from the time you pick it up.

 

I also hear that there will be a hike in the goods and services tax (GST) to up to 8 percent last year. A 5-8 percent jump is a decent jump but when you think that Australia started its GST at 10 percent it isnt too bad. I am sure it will go up to 10 percent in another few years but I guess alot of us will be out of here by then.

[Davo 1]

It's the only way they'll be able to afford keep up with the huge levels of public debt, keep some sort of a pension system and not have to make any other structural changes. The special interests influenced public spending on things the public doesn't actually need will be able to continue with renewed vigour. Can't say I favor any consumption tax hikes which will be of no benefit but I do like to know the "actual" price of what I'm about to buy.

[Markie 0]

Oh no! I hope that tax hike doesn't materialize. Every year, when I go to Canuckland, I try to hold back on spending because of their 15% tax. That's way too high!

5% I can live with, anything over that tends to affect my "propensity to consume" considerably.

[merryJim 1]

A restaurant near us has DEFINITELY used the change to increase basic prices. Bastards.

[Plucky 0]

Went to a rotary sushi place yesterday and noticed this. They actually hadn't changed their prices though. They had the 'new' price (tax included) in large numbers and then the old price (no tax) in small numbers underneath. It looked a bit weird seeing plates of sushi for 105, 157, 210, etc....

 

Jeez, why didn't they just lower their prices to make everything even numbers? ohhhh......

[Fattwins 0]

but come on its a hassle to the shop and they now have to pay more money for signage. I know of almost no country in the world that does this. This is being done so that the government can raise the taxes next year its to soften the blow. SSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPIIIDDDDDDDD ideas this government has.

[mikazooki 0]

know of no country that includes sales tax in prices??

 

that's excluding australia, new zealand, britain and france i take it.

[Markie 0]

Add HK to that list, mikazooki. Presently, we don't have a general sales tax but a few items are subject to tax: gasoline, tobacco and alcoholic beverages. The price you pay is the price that's listed so the tax is included.

[bobby12 0]

I find it ridiculous that a shop would display a price without tax included. It's impossible to buy it for the no-tax price so why bother displaying it?

 

It always pissed me off having to do maths in my head when shopping around for things. yes it costs more in signage and adjusting registers and so on, but its the price to pay for making the system non-ridiculous.

[nzlegend 1]

Coming from a country that has one price and thats the final price you pay at the register I find the inclusive system easier and less stressful. In Nz there was a massive stink when they added GST but now every is used to it and no one gives it a second thought, shops generally only display one price, the incl of GST price.

 

Whether the Govt here raises the Tax is irrelevant to the concept of including tax in the final cost, that is whole different kettle of fish.

 

Also this concept of one cost extends to tipping, it is really a great thing to stand outside a restaurant and read the menu and know that the price advertised, say for example $39.95 is the exact price you pay when you leave the joint at the end.

Not $39.95 + state tax (4-8%) + city tax 2% + 20%tip = confusion! how much are you going to eventually pay?

Again tipping is a whole can of worms that has already been done to death and we are never gonna agree on it.

 

But if you have to pay Tax then put it in at the beginning and be done with all the BS.

[Roger's head 0]

Why bother displaying it?

Simple

 

a) the price is CHEAPER

everyone else does

[Fattwins 0]

You guys miss the point as to why this is being done.

 

A no longer will you see the tax on the bill

 

b as it is included in the price you will not understand tax hikes

 

C why cause now the companies will have to absorb the tax to look cheap

 

d if you dont see it you dont complain about it

 

e a tax hike is coming the govt has done this to hide that fact.

 

F 7 stress 5% on a 1000 = 50 yen wow now im stressed. Im more stressed about a 7% tax hike than whether I can do simple math in my head.

[mikazooki 0]

i suppose the 10% income tax and 5% sales tax is killing u now. any increase likely to push u below the poverty line.

 

the problem with sales tax is that it is inherently regressive, not whether it appears on the price tag or not.

[nzlegend 1]

 Quote:

You guys miss the point as to why this is being done.

regardless of why they are doing it, its makes life easier and simplier to have tax inclusive. Now thats what I am talking about. If the Japanese govt decide to raise tax what the hell has it got to do with me?? I cant vote in this country, I have no voice. Pissing and moaning about it isnt going to stop them doing it.
The tax rates are pretty low in Japan on the whole , if they raise it, it sucks but life goes on, 5 to 7% isnt going to kill me. I DONT want it to go up, but what I want I seldom seem to get when it comes to Governments.

 Quote:

as it is included in the price you will not understand tax hikes

What?? that bollocks,I wont understand? is it a big secret this tax hike? I think most people are smart enough to read newspapers or watch the TV news to be informed of a tax hike. Do I really need to stand at the 7-11 counter and watch the prce of the 100 yen chocolate bar appear on the LED display as 107 yen and think, hmm I just paid 7% tax!

 Quote:

why cause now the companies will have to absorb the tax to look cheap

I dont follow you here? so you mean the 100yen shop which incidently was actually the 105YEN shop will now have to sell stuff for a flat 100 yen and lose 5 yen on every item? Fine make it a 105 yen shop, change the name then, whatever.

 Quote:

if you dont see it you dont complain about it

Just because you dont see it. doesnt mean it isnt there and you cant complain about it! Geez for a good example go to New Zealand and look at cigarettes, alcohol and petrola nd the excise tax.
Cigarettes are 68% Tax to the Govt yes 68% of the price goes into the Govt coffers. 24 cents of a single cigarette is excise tax and 4.7 cents is GST, nearly 29 cents in tax on nearly every individual cigarette. And dont smokers love to complain and gripe about that. Its all hidden in the cost but we all know its there, we hear about it daily. Where does all that cigarette tax go? a lot apparently into the Health system.
Alcohol excise tax is above 60% too.
Petrol tax is about 45 cents a litre of tax, just under 50%. Of that chunk it gets divided among the Crown Bank Account, National Roads Fund, Accident Compensation Corporation Levy,Energy Resources Levy (ERL),Petroleum Fuels Monitoring Levy and
Local Authorities Petroleum Tax. Wouldnt that make for a long reciept if evry tax was itemized?

Most people in New Zealand know they are paying it (tax), it gets huge attention when it gets raised, people most certainly complain, and compalin and then complain some more about it but thats life.
So the statement that if you cant see it you wont complain is rubbish.
(You may think NZ is a crap place for all the Tax, yeah it friggin sux but I love the place and thats where I want to settle, overtaxed but a great place all the same)

 Quote:

a tax hike is coming the govt has done this to hide that fact.

yes, and??? irrelevant of the tax hike (which sucks) its a great opportunity to introduce a logical and better way to do things? every cloud has a silver lining.

 Quote:

stress 5% on a 1000 = 50 yen wow now im stressed. Im more stressed about a 7% tax hike than whether I can do simple math in my head.

Nice simple example. How about this one, you walking home late at night from a big night an the town and you have blown most of your cash except for 452 yen in loose change in your pocket.
You want to buy an Onigiri 130, packet of chips 145 and a softdrink 150. can you do it??? its hard to think clearly especially when you half cut and tired.
145 + 130 + 150 is easy if that were the inclusive of the total but it aint is it?

thats the crap I am talking about! any fool can add 1000 with 5% thats easy, but life aint always a powder day.

[sachiko 0]

I am glad they do it, but please dont increat prices!

[r45 4]

A few places round here have also taken the opportunity to increase the base prices a bit as well.

 

On the other hand I saw a newspaper flyer thing this morning where a shop was saying that their final prices will in effect go down, and they will pay the 5%.

[NoFakie 45]

 Quote:

Originally posted by mikazooki:
the problem with sales tax is that it is inherently regressive, not whether it appears on the price tag or not.

Well said that man! The only way you could make the system fair would be to exempt lots of essentials. In the UK, which is far from perfect, groceries, baby clothes and books are exempt, or at least they used to be. Taxing food especially strikes me as wrong.

I think consumption tax should be displayed on the receipt at least just to keep people aware of how much they are paying. It's all part of trying to keep the government accountable, an important aspect of democracy.

I believe the complication that we've had in Japan as to display or not display or to charge or not charge has been that businesses that earn less than 30 million yen have not had to file a consumption tax return (i.e., pay the government the difference of tax collected and tax paid). This has meant that lots of shops and what have you ( ) have just kept the money they collected. I don't pay as much attention to Japanese politics as I should, but I think the threshold comes down to 10 million this year.

While people may disagree with businesses collecting and then keeping tax, I think it just works as a minor subsidy for small businesses, and is only disagreeable in that it may have been a politically motivated gift from the LDP to the shopkeeper class. As companies become larger, there is an at least linear increase in accounting firepower and in the options available for playing the tax system to their advantage. To assume large corporations with their hundreds of interlocking subsids are not somehow playing the system using methods unavailable to small businesses would be rather naive.

[NoFakie 45]

I'll just correct that to 30 million and 10 million in turnover, not earnings.

[veronica 2]

 Quote:

I think consumption tax should be displayed on the receipt at least just to keep people aware of how much they are paying.

Thats the case, isn't it? Are they obliged to keep that on there?

[mogski 0]

Besides the fact that the govt might be reading for a tax hike has anyone actually considered that this is a possible way to ensure that all retail outlets fairly pay their portion of consumption tax instead of renegging? Those establishments that didn't pay meant that us consumers suffered tax hikes elsewhere to cover the deficit in the budget. If now all outlets pay compulsory perhaps the need to raise income taxes even consumption tax might disspate?

 

Food for thought.