Niseko vs Hakuba

[Yuki's Passion 1]

>First of all, the pic of Yotei in the background is not misleading. It's obviously just scenery and not lift served. People do climb it and ski down however. In that sense you could call it 'Niseko back country'...

 

What about Rusutsu then? Is that part of the Niseko BC?

 

>'Steep and deep' is a bit of a myth.

 

You obviously havent had any of the goods yet then. Hopefully your next trip will be better

[Fattwins 0]

Happo gelendes sure dont avderage 12 ill say that much.

 

Next 2 years ago hakuba got skunked untill jan 1st. 3 years ago niseko got skunked till around Jan 1st as well. Dec is an iffy month at best for any resort around the world.

 

As for BC any above ridges in BC Hakuba puts to shame the BC around Niseko. Niseko has snow thats it snow and not much more than Hakuba and less than it claims to get.

[Yuki's Passion 1]

 Quote:

Originally posted by le spud:
Niseko out of bounds:


Hakuba out of bounds:

yup, not steep at all...

[Rag-Doll 0]

To be fair and not wanting to get into the whole H v N thing (hasn't it already been done to death?) those photos aren't really a good comparison of the terrain available from the resorts. The Niseko photo shows what is virtually controlled, lift serviced terrain. Access is restricted when avie risk has increased - hardly hardcore. I haven't been to the part of the Hakuba valley shown in the Hakuba photo (is that the same face as shown in the Sock Monkey photo?) but is it fair to say that that photo shows some of the more extreme terrain accessable and available around Hakuba? In that sense perhaps Yotei and the back of Niseko would be a better comparison with the Hakuba photo and therefore the differences between the two areas, while still significant, aren't quite a pronounced as these two phots would suggest.

[Yuki's Passion 1]

No, there is no comparison between Yotei and Hakuba BC as shown in the photo - zero. Yotei is steeper than Niseko (sorry previously wrote Hakuba) but at the steepest might be over 40 degrees though not with a long pitch. When you climb it, or if you have, you will know that.

 

Niseko has whats called local rules - which uses a team of people to help keep the terrain safe. They DO NOT do any avalance control other than say its prone to slide. They dont bomb it or use air guns.

 

Also, skiable terrain, ducking ropes into trees, brings you into THAT type of terrain in Hakuba with 40-50 degrees, very long runs, cliffs, and chutes. None of which can be found at Niseko.

[Yuki's Passion 1]

I like Hakuba (Nagano) better because of the more challenging terrain it offers. It pushes me to be a better skier - something I cant get at Niseko. And Niseko offers no big lines and true BC in the Spring.

[panhead_pete 27]

Looks like I have picked the right destination - sweet and thnaks for the input although I am absolutley sure I wont in any way be limited by the terrian, just my ability and "common sense" which seems to be taking more control of my life as I get older

[Yuki's Passion 1]

All that said, anybody who goes to Niseko has a great time as the snow is amazing. Check it out for yourself and then make a decision which is better.

 

Why anybody would wanna listen to a bunch of crazy@ss peoples advice like us, who they dont know in the first place, is crazy

[Rag-Doll 0]

Fair enough and I'm not suggesting they are comparable. I'm a big fan of Hakuba and reckon Niseko is a one trick pony - I just wanted to make the point that the two photos weren't really comparing the steepest, out of bounds areas of the two resorts and that the Niseko photo shows terrain that is 10 min from the lifts (and ridable by almost anyone) but the Hakuba photo shows terrain that is a couple of hours (4-5 to the ridge(?)) above Happo.

[Fattwins 0]

Rag Doll agreed somewhat look at the right corner of the pic. between lift access to 30 minutes hike and good terrain.

 

I will always shoot down slightly untrue statements that come out of the niseko marketing though. Thats not a chip if someone doesnt do it ill youll get is crap thats just not true.

[panhead_pete 27]

OMG that looks sensational!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cant wait. Hubba hubba

[Rag-Doll 0]

Nice photo FT and I reckon this must FINALLY put to rest any discussion about the relative difficulty/challenges/quality of terrain offered at the two locations! And I agree that Niseko marketing is fair game - its image is more than a little bloated by hype.

[Fattwins 0]

Now you just gotta find out where the places are and prepare for them

[panhead_pete 27]

Apparently the guy who owns the place I am staying at is pretty knowledable about such things and I have already started the fitness. But if anyone has any specific thoughts on applicable exercises etc feel free to share. Am focussing on enduarnce (bike and running) and core strength at present.

[damian 0]

 Quote:

>'Steep and deep' is a bit of a myth.

You obviously haven't had any of the goods yet then. Hopefully your next trip will be better

He didn't mean that seep and deep doesn't exist at Hakuba, he correctly meant that when its fresh and deep then steep is almost always off limits due to avalanche risk. So the fact that it is steep is of little help if it is deep at the same time. This is not always true, but who here runs out at 7am ion the morning and hikes a 40 degree line after it snowed 30-50cm the previous night? I don't, I ride 30 degree slopes after a fresh dump, one of the reason I own a long board: I can still rip deep stuff on Niseko style terrain.

The original pictures: I probably used them out of my original context, noted. But the comparison still shows that Hakuba is in a genuine rugged alpine environment with pretty good touring options whilst Niseko is a very big hill and has no real mountains. Yotei looks nice, but it is a pimple. Like ragdoll said - Niseko is a one trick pony, it is not an alpine playground (but I doubt it ever claimed to be one. I just like sitting in another country and spouting shit about things I dont know much about beyond looking at a topo map)

Panhead - in answer to your question, spend your time practicing beacon search and rescue some cardio work and leg squats.

[big-will 7]

Thing I love about Hakuba is that ruggedness, I love arriving in the valley and seeing it all there and then getting up high (though not as high as some of our adventurous friends on here!) Would love to go higher.

[WantToSki 0]

well, just to add my yen's worth - ive been reading from some japanese snow mags that hakuba happo-one is considered to be the "skiing mecca in japan," consistently ranking one in the charts

 

could it be the difference on how foreigners and japanese judge their favorite resorts?

[Fattwins 0]

marketing

[Yuki's Passion 1]

>He didn't mean that seep and deep doesn't exist at Hakuba, he correctly meant that when its fresh and deep then steep is almost always off limits due to avalanche risk. So the fact that it is steep is of little help if it is deep at the same time. This is not always true, but who here runs out at 7am ion the morning and hikes a 40 degree line after it snowed 30-50cm the previous night? I don't

 

fair enough - but after continual snowfall and with ample time to allow the pack to settle and bond, then you can have both. Doesnt have to be immediately.

 

WTS, you may also notice that the #1 resort changes from magazine to magazine (Ski Journal, Skier, Bravo, Fall Line) and who the readers are; also for the type of skiing as well.

[Fattwins 0]

And for the amount that the resort forks over for ads. Niseko will go down the ladder a bit cause its marketing focus has changed as well. Also more blue bird days in Hokkaido main so they shoot alot up there. We just get cloudy weather most of the time in the winter with some breaks because we are so close to the Ocean.

[kaiser soce 0]

Someone mentioned the back of Niseko, thought i would add this pic to the convo-

[Rag-Doll 0]

cool - are the red lined areas avie prone areas or recommended areas?

[kaiser soce 0]

They are slide paths.

[damian 0]

Hey, good picture, cheers.

 

I have absolutely nothing against Niseko at all, but a hill is a hill, no matter what way you look at it. And that is a hill.

 

Still, I'd gladly take that hill for a season over a season of sitting in a office 5 days a week. And come to think of it, no one really ever claimed that Niseko wasn't a hill rather than a mountain range anyway, so I don't know why I keep banging that drum. Niseko has awesome snow on gentle terrain and like I said before, if you cant have fun on that then there is something wrong with you. Personal progression in difficult alpine terrain is a different matter, but that is not why people go to Niseko in the first place, so why use that measuring stick?

 

I think the Niseko theme song should be "Let it Be" by the Beatles.

[Ocean11 0]

And the other really strong point about Nesiko is the infinitely plastic nature of its name. Slot those vowels in any way you think best, and it still seems to spell waist deep powder.