Fattwins 0 Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 I think lespud doesnt like the flatness of niseko. Using Yotei's image and never showing a proper picture of the resort is false advertising really. Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 a helicopter at Yotei? Really? When did they start doing that? And most people dont hike Yotei until mid-late March ... Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Quote: Originally posted by skidaisuki: Pete, If you have the money, Niseko for sure. If you are on a budget, Hakuba will probably be cheaper to stay and get to. Last season everywhere was good from mid December to mid January, but other years mid December would be a bit early. You may be lucky though. Stay at the Hakuba Alps Backpackers if you want a cheap place that's friendly and close to the slopes: http://www.hakubabackpackers.com/ now, you're making it sound like Niseko is an expensive place. you can rough it there like you could anywhere else. But I would'nt. Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 uh-oh, here comes another can of worms. Niseko is too flat to be called an excellent resort though Skidaisuki. Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 I disagree - Niseko is a great resort but does lack somethings. Cant we leave the bickering here?? Link to post Share on other sites
panhead_pete 27 Posted September 1, 2006 Author Share Posted September 1, 2006 Thanks skidaisuki. Accomadation wise I really would prefer my own room - with ensuite if possible as my days sleeping in the same room with a heavy snorer are OVER . I am looking hard to find one in Habuka. I have emailed the backpackers so will hopefully hear back from them soon. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 There is nothing wrong with Niseko but the honest opinion of many people that visit is that they have lots of fun but relative to the hype it has some of the most dull unchallenging terrain imaginable, that is why Yotei is the poster boy. I used to think Niseko was great, but I also hadn’t seen anything and was a pretty lame snowboarder at the time. But even then I pretty quickly noticed that without powder, Niseko has nothing. I have experienced powderless Niseko. Anyway, its not about the resorts, they are just manipulative business ventures. Who cares about them. It is about the mountains, the terrain and the snow. And Niseko only has one out of three. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 "opinion of many people that visit is that they have lots of fun." That sums me up perfectly. that's why I keep returning year after year. A challenge sounds too much like hard work. For me, the 40 degree slopes and blackies like Super and Giant are good enough for my (wobbly) skills. The business ventures can go do what they do to survive but I'm there for the fun. they don't bother me and I don't bother them. Link to post Share on other sites
Mantas 3 Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Le spud . I am bi-sexual. I love having sex with two women. There's room for concern that the question of sexuality is so closley linked to your thoughts when discussing ski trips. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 40 degrees now thats funny what 10 meters long maybe. The topo map shows no runs over 32 degrees inbounds at niseko really. Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Spuds picture is worth a thousand words "SEASON PASSES AREA Season Pass is able you to access Hakuba 47, Iimori & Hakuba Goryu SUPER Season Pass is able you to access 7 other mountains; in Japan in addition to Hakuba 47, Iimori & Hakuba Goryu" What are the 7 other mountains? Shiga? Nozawa? Happo? Zao? Myoko? ...? Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 The Dai Kaiten is marked as 40 degrees and 430 long and then joins the Super at 25 degrees. That's enough for me for now. Link to post Share on other sites
panhead_pete 27 Posted September 4, 2006 Author Share Posted September 4, 2006 I am also wondering what the other mountains are as I'd like to buy my pass nice and early. Does anyone know as it doesnt seem to be on the page I'm looking at. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 ok i got a chuckle when you said that cause here it is Maximum Gradient/40 Average Gradient/14 Run Length/430 like i said about 10 meters long. Compare it to hakuba cortinas hardest course Maximum Gradient/42 Average Gradient/36 Run Length/i think 900 meters. thats a course that is steep and deep. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 In Japan that is quite a respectable length of steepness (Cortina). For an otherwise small and featureless resort, Cortina has a disproportionately large number of good lines both in and out of bounds. You have to remember though that 40 degrees is considered 'black' or 'black diamond' or what ever the scale is. Of course there is nothing remotely difficult about them in the grand scale of alpine landscapes. But for a skiing holiday maker they pose a satisfying challenge. Many people actually stop for a while at the top of a 40 degree run. Most people avoid 45 degree runs all together. Nearly everyone totally underestimates what 40-45 degrees actually means until they try to walk up such a gradient without the aid of stairs (anyone scratching their head should give it a go, you might be surprised). So resorts don’t need a lot of terrain at 40 degrees to keep people happy. But one or two steep runs is a bit lacking, particularly when the bulk of the remaining terrain is noticeably flat. Link to post Share on other sites
SerreChe 2 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Quote: Originally posted by Fattwins: ok i got a chuckle when you said that cause here it is Maximum Gradient/40 Average Gradient/14 That's a shocker of a stat, says it all. I hope they do not advertise as having some 40 deg slopes when it is actually so short. Cortina is nice but I am very doubtful that the steeper runs are 900m long, feels a lot more like 300m, takes only a few seconds to get to the bottom in good deep pow pow. I could be wrong though. Anyway, wherever people go, as long as they are happy there given their abilities, no need to defend one place vs. the other. Still nice to notice the misleading marketing along the way though. By the way, you guys are doing a great job of advertising hakuba Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Lets look at Niseko's good bits. Accounting for all three resort areas (Annupuri, Higashiyama, Hirafu) and ignoring anything with a max gradient less than 35 degrees: Run name, Max Gradient, Average Gradient, Length Dynamic, 36, 18, 530 Miharashi, 35, 18, 883 Konayuki, 37, 21, 403 Onsenzawa, 40, 16, 286 Challenge, 33, 19, 390 Dynamic, 33, 19, 390 Fukayuki, 34, 34, 400 So except for 1 run, Niseko's 7 steepest runs have an average gradient of less than 25 degrees. A sorry list. And if that isn't bad enough, by my quick calculation: accounting for all runs, the average gradient, weighted by run length is 13 degrees. 13 degrees!!! There are flatter resorts in Japan I am sure, but none so flat and so well known as Niseko. Pray for powder, because without it.... what have you got? Day after day of 13 degree snowboarding. (It is easy to paint a picture with numbers and just to be balanced and fair lets consider a resort renowned for steep terrain: Grand Montets in Chamonix. You can snake your way from the top of this great place to the very bottom and enjoy 2100m of vertical descent along an 8km run. That works out at only 15 degrees average gradient. So even quite steep resorts don't stack up well when viewed from the perspective of meandering pistes. But keep in mind it is 8000m long and down a vertical fall of more than twice that which is possible in Niseko.) Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 its got lots of long traverses as well...didnt mind so much cuz as a skier you can skate across which was nice when beating out the boarders to get ta strawberries... Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Serreche I mean course length not vertical its not 900 meters of vertical. Europe resorts and NA resorts do let you assume risk but Japanese as a whole dont do that even in daily life. The blame will always have to fall somewhere. Cortina on a good day is nice but there are no jumps or drops so it bores me. Link to post Share on other sites
SerreChe 2 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 FT, that is what I understood, course length, but I am probably wrong. I never thought the steeper courses were 900m long, but thinking of it, depending which one we are talking about, if we include the approach to the actual splope via the ridge then it makes sense. I am not a big jumper myself given my frame and really enjoy drop-less slopes such as Cortina. I am amazed when I see the pics of the kind of jumps you guys pull such as the Sh*t gap though. Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 >on a good day is nice but there are no jumps or drops so it bores me Though the size of the mtn at Cortina isnt very big, compared with Niseko, if Niseko had Cortina's tree runs with that pitch Niseko would be sick. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 its way longer than 300 meters thats for sure. but we are both arguing the same point. i will alwasys aggree that european resorts kick the resorts arses here. Big problem in Europe is snow. the snow isnt falling anymore in Europe like it used to Link to post Share on other sites
gerard 6 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 It's true that Niseko lacks steeps, but so does every other ski resort in Japan. It seems to me a lot of people who live in Nagano have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to Niseko. First of all, the pic of Yotei in the background is not misleading. It's obviously just scenery and not lift served. People do climb it and ski down however. In that sense you could call it 'Niseko back country' ... and it's certainly more challenging than the front face of the peak that Le spud posted! Actually the back face of the peak is also a lot more challenging but the pictures were obviously chosen to make a point. True - I'd get tired of skiing on-piste packed powder at Niseko but I've very rarely had to. It's extremely easy to go off-piste and the balance of consistency and quality of the snow at Niseko is among the best in the world. In December I'd take Niseko over any place I know of. Actually, I skied Happo (Hakuba) over New Years a number of years ago and there was hardly any snow. Plus there were huge fences around anything that looked interesting. I had heard that Happo had some famously steep in bounds stuff but that was equally underwhelming. I haven't written off Nagano after one bad New years and I'm not saying that Niseko is 'the best' but I'm tired reading rags on Niseko. 'Steep and deep' is a bit of a myth. After a dump, truly steep terrain isn't stable until the snow slides. At Niseko I miss the steeps, but I never REALLY knew powder until I started skiing three every year for the past three. Next year... Time for a change. Nagano and Whistler. (I hope Whistler's not one those resorts that caters specifically to homosexuals. Is it LeSpud?) Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Actually, to be fair, most of the people living in Nagano couldn't give a shit either way. There is no chip on their shoulder that I know of. Sure, they keep asserting that Nagano has much steeper terrain than Niseko, but this can hardly be disputed. In fact, it has become a bit of an in-joke for a few of the lads on here (myself included)to take a swipe at Niseko's lack of steeps wherever possible. But in all honestly I think most will agree, as has been stated a number of times by a few different people, that Niseko is great until you want a more challenging mountain like Nagano can provide. If you are referring to the "Problems in Niseko" thread, then it wasn't anyone in Nagano that started that thread, it was me. And I have no chip. I was just commenting on a newspaper report I had read combined with a few of the stories I had heard from mates who had worked there. The point is, go where you personally are gonna enjoy yourself most. If you do that then the rest of us couldn't give a rats arse! Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Quote: (I hope Whistler's not one those resorts that caters specifically to homosexuals. Is it LeSpud?) No mate. Australians that go to Whistler are not gay. They are all on the flats in Niseko [it should be noted that I am seriously not normally the type to make jock gay jokes. In fact, I am usually the recipient of them] Link to post Share on other sites
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