brit-gob 9 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 It's got absolutely nothing to do with pride. And in general I'm not a big fan of people who take the pride thing far. It's not an appealing trait when overused. Actually I'm half American/half British officially. I love my family, where I come from. But why do I need to sing a silly song that someone tells me to prove anything about my love for where I come from? And to prove it to who? It's frankly ridiculous. Sheep. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Can you imagine the jobsworths at the voting office as you stroll in and try to exercise your new right to voting in an election??!! "....but, but You're a GAIJIN!!??" nervous looks at each other, demanding to see your Gaij Card, you demanding to see their Gaij card....actually it sounds like a great wind up, I may just do it! Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Reasons some people may choose to become citizens, among other things: - right to vote - property ownership becomes much easier (same as business ownership) - bank loans (etc) become easier Don't forget how cool you look at the airport when you whip out a red passport with Nihon stamped across it! Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: Ocean11 Originally Posted By: Go Native It's a bit like saying what kind of vague bullshit is marriage. Not at all. You can make a real commitment to a person, which generally works better within some sort of formalized framework. With something as big and amorphous as a country, it's just ... vague bullshit. (Sarah Palin is a good example of where that sort of thing leads.) Well that's your opininion. Are you married? You see I never though that much about the institution of marriage until I actually got married. I always thought what was the point of having that little bit of paper. If you love someone isn't that enough? What I came to realise was that going through the actual marriage ceremony and declaring your love and lifelong committment to someone in front of family and friends is really very powerful. I believe there is also something powerful about becoming a citizen of a country. Especially when it's your choice rather than just being born somewhere. I don't believe that's vague at all. I think gaijin would gain a lot more respect in Japan if more became citizens and participated actively at all levels of Japanese society (rather than the vast builk who just teach a bit of crappy english for awhile and then scamper back to their real lives in their home countries ) Originally Posted By: Ocean11 When you make this 'commitment' to Japan, what does that mean? Are you going to fight for the country? Spy for it? Throw your electoral weight behind some politician? Pay taxes? What would you do as a citizen that you wouldn't otherwise do? You can do all or none of those things just like any other citizen of the country. If you were to commit to living out the rest of your days in Japan wouldn't you like to participate at all levels of society like any other national living there? Anyway you've made a few vague points about why you probably wouldn't become a Japanese citizen but I'm not really sure you've put forward any valid reasons as to why gaijin shouldn't do it. It certainly doesn't harm anything does it? Or can you just not see how any gaijin could possibly love Japan so much that they'd be willing to become a Japanese citizen? Link to post Share on other sites
Curt 1 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I prove my alleigence and commitment to Japan by doing the early morning rajio taiso exercises in the morning. I don't need to be Curt Takahashi to prove my committment! Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 the Police would still stop you and demand to see your Gaij card, they will still detain you down the cop shop when you try and tell them that you are actually Japanese and don't need to carry any ID around, they will still laugh in your face as they look at each other and say..."HA! He thinks he's Japanese!?", they will still bow and offer you a heartfelt apolgy when they EVENTUALLY discover you've been telling the truth all along and they will still call you "gaijin" when you turn around, because no Gaij can ever be Japanese Link to post Share on other sites
1 4 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yep. Even gaijin who officially become "Japanese".... are still gaijin. Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: TubbyBeaverinho the Police would still stop you and demand to see your Gaij card Interesting - do they do that often? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: Go Native I believe there is also something powerful about becoming a citizen of a country. Especially when it's your choice rather than just being born somewhere. I don't believe that's vague at all. I think gaijin would gain a lot more respect in Japan if more became citizens and participated actively at all levels of Japanese society Powerful in what way specifically? That's just an empty expression. I participate in everything my neighbours do except voting. Some of my neighbours even seem to think I have citizenship already. Perhaps they're respecting me for that, all unaware of how wrong they are? Originally Posted By: Go Native It certainly doesn't harm anything does it? Or can you just not see how any gaijin could possibly love Japan so much that they'd be willing to become a Japanese citizen? Well, with the non-transparent way that it's set up now, you could say that it is harmful to comply with it. Why submit to such unreasonableness? Having this tyrannical admission procedure doesn't actually make the country of Japan more 'loveable'. If it were easier and transparent, I would do it for the sake of convenience, not because I love Japan but because I don't give a toss about nationality. As Little Tubby Beaver says, you would still face discrimination. That Debito fellow in Hokkers up there seems to have become Japanese just so he can make the point ad nauseam. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Originally Posted By: BagOfCrisps Originally Posted By: TubbyBeaverinho the Police would still stop you and demand to see your Gaij card Interesting - do they do that often? It depends on where you are and what "type" of Gaijin you are. Those of a darker complexion seem to get a lot more attention from the cops than us peely-wally types Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I have never once been stopped. I must look like a respectable scouser. Link to post Share on other sites
bobby12 0 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Well, over here an 80s mullet and a shiny shellsuit is a sign of wealth and taste. Link to post Share on other sites
Tex 3 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Originally Posted By: bobby12 Well, over here an 80s mullet and a shiny shellsuit is a sign of wealth and taste. Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 actually theres a guy on bigdaikon called rudd crunch who took naturalisation and was stopped by the police. He told them in his nicest japanese that he was a citizen and thus "not obligated to show his identification just like every other citizen in japan" and the policeman said, "sorry to have disturbed you mr. Crunch", and went on his way. Hell, unless they have reason to suspect you they cant ask for your id. Of course they get around that by the whole "youre riding a bike that might be stolen" mischief apparently. Still, that ones for the brazilians, we proper gaijin dont often get carded. As for the why naturalisation: BM already said the big ones: Buying a house Getting a loan Starting a business Able to vote You might as well also throw in that you arent beholden to the whims of other people or changes in government policy pertaining to guest workers. No one needs to sponsor your visa, and you can bet that if you hate some new law that directly affects you, its also directly affecting hundreds of thousands of other people all with the power to vote and requiring to be kept placated for the best part. if youre a nice visa sponsored guest gaijin and a laws affect you, youre dependant upon the japanese taxpayer... and really unless it doesnt directly affects them, whats johnny resident really going to care about it enough to do anything about it? So yeah, that power to be a citizen is pretty big even if it seems purely symbolic. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I did get carded once. It was a cute policewoman, so i honestly didnt mind even if unconsciously i was probably seething at the injustice. Still, my super ego was fine about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 a Policewoman....in Japan??!! Surely a rarer breed than the piccolo playing blue unicorn! Link to post Share on other sites
Tex 3 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Originally Posted By: brit-gob It's got absolutely nothing to do with pride. And in general I'm not a big fan of people who take the pride thing far. It's not an appealing trait when overused. Well I think it has a lot to do with pride and being proud of where you choose to call home, your country I agree that overused it is very unappealing Originally Posted By: brit-gob Actually I'm half American/half British officially. Dual citizenship? Originally Posted By: brit-gob But why do I need to sing a silly song that someone tells me to prove anything about my love for where I come from? And to prove it to who? It's frankly ridiculous. Sheep. Well you don't need to sing it God save the queen does seem quite silly to an agnostic republican like me SO agreed there as well. It is the symbolism anyway, though I don't mind our national anthem, grown on me as I get older. I am not a flag waving nationalist and don't understand why people raise a massive pole in the yard to fly the flag. I don't even like our flag that much. Anyway does that make me a sheep, not really... I know more people that feel like you brit, certainly more than hold my views, at least amongst my circle of friends I would be an individual If foreigners want to take up citizenship I don't see it as a big deal rather commend them for pursuing a closer connection to the country they want to call home. If you felt the same way you do about your "home country" for another one you lived in it seems quite natural to me to want to be a citizen. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I spawned a Japanese person and am still feeding him. Does that count as commitment to Japan? Link to post Share on other sites
brit-gob 9 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Well it either has nothing to do with pride, or I just don't care about things like 'pride' like you do. Doesn't bother me one way or another if someone else wants to 'become Japanese'. Link to post Share on other sites
pie-eater 207 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 James Bond 'became Japanese', very convincingly, in order to save the world from Dr Evil... as documented on film in You Only Live Twice. Link to post Share on other sites
pie-eater 207 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 He probs got special permission though.... Link to post Share on other sites
Metabo Oyaji 71 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'm with those who think naturalizing is, well, natural. Perhaps just the result of brainwashing, having been raised in a self-styled "nation of immigrants." Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Originally Posted By: Metabo Oyaji I'm with those who think naturalizing is, well, natural. Perhaps just the result of brainwashing, having been raised in a self-styled "nation of immigrants." Aye, there's the rub. Japan isn't a nation of immigrants, and they don't consider it natural. Link to post Share on other sites
pie-eater 207 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Thinking about Bond's case again, though.... I think he went back to being a Brit. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Most gaijin in Japan are Korean or Chinese, and its crap that the ones here for generations don't get citizenship. Especially when they'll hand it out to Australians who are quite good at rugby. Non-Japanese aren't allowed properly on the koseki, and I can imagine that causing a lot of trouble for people if their family circumstances are not the standard model, through divorce, remarriage, adoption or whatever. Japan may not be a country of immigrants, but among people in Japan in their twenties, 3-4% are non-Japanese. Somewhere between 1 in 25 and 1 in 30. That's what government figures say. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 "Tiger say from now on you must do everything Japanese style." "Everysching?" That's probably why he got fed up and went back to pies eh? Link to post Share on other sites
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