Next season - let's remember this

[iiyamadude 6]

Well that sure is intelligent!

 

Anyway, I agree with what you are saying Slippery Jim.

[boardbaka 3]

come on guys fire up ! even scores so far who will deliver the knockout blow ?

[Jynxx 4]

 

 

Originally Posted By: iiyamadude

Well that sure is intelligent!

 

Cool. now we are on the same level then !

 

 

Originally Posted By: boardbaka

come on guys fire up ! even scores so far who will deliver the knockout blow ?

 

No need boardbaka. Us knuckledraggers are evolved species

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: Metabo Oyaji

Thanks for the explanation! So to oversimplify, blue is good, orange is bad, and the black lines will tell us which direction the blue regions will be heading?

As long as you know which direction the winds move around a high or low pressure system in the Northern hemisphere then the black lines should give a good indication of where cooler or warmer airmasses are headed. Once you have an idea of what you're looking at charts like the unisys ones help give you a good idea of what's on the way. Like any weather forecasting though more than a few days out the accuracy can drop off rapidly. Well at least in a meteorologically complex region like Japan in winter.

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: Slippery Jim

Openings have gotten later in the past 20 years. I often made first runs in mid- to late-November back in the 80s, at Naeba/Tenjindaira, by early December in Mitsumata/Yuzawa Kogen.
That said, whether it's starry-eyed optimism or industry hype, places that may have opened November 25 in 1985 shouldn't be year after year claiming they will open Nov 25 now, when they know damn well it's not going to happen. That's called ripping off the paying customer.

The customer is only ripped off if the resort is also claiming great skiing when there is not. Anyone with half a brain can very easily look at snow reports and/or live cams or give the resort a call to check conditions. Most of the resorts on Honshu are not getting large amounts of their business from O/S customers who book months in advance. Most hotel accommodation will allow bookings without a deposit and only 24 hours notice on cancellation with no charges.

So frankly if you rock up for a weekend at resort down that way expecting snow and there isn't you deserve all you get because you're obviously an idiot.

[Slippery Jim 65]

As opposed to the people who rocked up for a few days at Niseko this week? They idiots too? The ones who maybe booked and paid for trips out of Australia, or Singapore, or Hong Kong. Who arranged their vacation time based on Internet claims that there's always great skiing in Niseko by early December? The ones out there ``playing'' in 5 cm of snow because their prepaid lift passes are worthless? Those the idiots you're talking about? How many of those idiots are your customers? And how many of them know what you think of them?

[stemik 14]

I once went on a summer holiday enticed by the travel agents brochures but it rained for a whole week.

Did I blame the travel agents - No.

Did I feel unlucky - Yes

[muikabochi 208]

Was it early season, and when you went all the things to do was closed, but on the brouchure it had the OPEN! date a few weeks earlier than you booked for?

Not quite the same situation.

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: Slippery Jim

As opposed to the people who rocked up for a few days at Niseko this week? They idiots too? The ones who maybe booked and paid for trips out of Australia, or Singapore, or Hong Kong. Who arranged their vacation time based on Internet claims that there's always great skiing in Niseko by early December? The ones out there ``playing'' in 5 cm of snow because their prepaid lift passes are worthless? Those the idiots you're talking about? How many of those idiots are your customers? And how many of them know what you think of them?

Show me anywhere on any site by any company here that claims there is always great skiing by early December. Niseko is a very different case to resorts on Honshu. The accommodation booking and cancellation policies are very different to most accommodation anywhere else in Japan but then the accommodation is very differnt to just about anywhere else in Japan.
As I said previously I always warn customers that conditions may still be marginal at this time. I don't talk it up that they will be skiing on metres and metres of snow in the first couple of weeks of Dec. I can only advise that normally there will be some skiing by now which is not misleading in the slightest because it's true. This is one of the latest starts to the season in my time up here (7 seasons) and was told by a local that it's the latest start since 1990.

So once again if people come this early expecting there to be waist deep powder off-piste they have the wrong expectation and I don't believe that's through any fault of the marketing. And for your information there were full refunds for anyone who prepaid for lift passes, lessons or anything else that wasn't able to be provided. We also provided complimentary transfers to Kiroro where there are lifts running. And we've done our best to assist with organising other activities for them. Most of my customers have still gone away pretty happy with their holiday. Again most coming this early are not hardcore skiers/boarders. Many have never even seen snow before. Would they have liked more snow? Of course they would have, we all would like more snow!

The resort has their opening ceremony on around the 21st Nov each year. Everything is ready to go snow permitting and in many years some skiing is normally possible from this date. The accommodation providers here have no control over when the resort decides to have their opening weekend and we do not claim that there will be awesome skiing from that date. You take a risk booking a ski holiday early season at any ski area in the world. If you're not aware of that then you're an idiot. It's not the fault of the resort or accommodation providers if nature doesn't provide the white stuff on time.

[iiyamadude 6]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

Show me anywhere on any site by any company here that claims there is always great skiing by early December.

Have people not said that Niseko might a different case?

Nozawa had a great big huge sign on their saying GRAND OPENING 21st DECEMBER all over their site. It was hardly verging on the side of caution and with the record there should be.

[Go Native 70]

I'm responding to slippery who made a specific point about Niseko. You even read what he wrote?

[iiyamadude 6]

Yeah very sorry, I must be one of your quickly-branded morons / idiots hey.

[Nisoko 6]

Quote:

Show me anywhere on any site by any company here that claims there is always great skiing by early December. Niseko is a very different case to resorts on Honshu.

Perhaps not explicitly, but there is hardly a wary warning of expectations to help people make a decision.

[Go Native 70]

The worlds full of them so don't worry you have plenty of company

[iiyamadude 6]

Everyone except you hey. Must be lonely.

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: Nisoko

Quote:

Show me anywhere on any site by any company here that claims there is always great skiing by early December. Niseko is a very different case to resorts on Honshu.

Perhaps not explicitly, but there is hardly a wary warning of expectations to help people make a decision.

And there should be a warning? Are you kidding? When on average there is skiing at this time most years we should be warning people not to book early December because now and then they might be caught out? We are running businesses here not some not for profit information service. That's what site like this are for.
If people are too lazy to take advantage of the information services out there besides the marketing by businesses then I have little sympathy for them.

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: iiyamadude

Everyone except you hey. Must be lonely.

Well at least all my posts on this thread are addressing the subject rather just having a go at the people posting like you seem to be doing...
Now you're little tiff with Jynxx appears over you need someone else to have a go at?

[iiyamadude 6]

To quote you "You even read what I wrote?"

 

Jynxx and you are the ones having a go.

[Jynxx 4]

Even this site is full of Hype.

But in this age of internet, unless you are reading some stuff off an dot-edu site, most of us know to take things with ...say no more.

Weather, currency exchange rates, etc belongs to speculation. And there are mathematical modelling methods we can use to quantify as probability. How thick do you have to be to understand that if it doesn´t snow, it´s not happening.

 

Second hand car salesman, Real estates agent, Travel agents.

It´s part of the job to gross things up. Everyone knows it. Do they carry a warning?

There is a limit to what guarantee they can give. War, Act of God, most of that aren´t covered. I´ve seen a great offer at an European resort as to Half price if it rains all day... and that´s a rare offer.

 

To take all this out context and make it into some holy-than-thou crusade? is naive or what?

I can understand gripe and winge about bad luck by someone who´s having it.

This is all twisted. Aren´t you the one who proclaimed "all of this for open discussion" WTF are you getting all judgemental about. If you can´t keep what you say, shove it up where it belongs to. At least GN is a straight shooter on this one. I am just a little more civil than GN to say that you lack common sense on this topic rather that telling you are acting moronic.

 

 

[grungy-gonads 54]

Quote:

Even this site is full of Hype.

Do tell.

[SnowJapan 178]

Yes Jynxx, I would be keen to know why you, incorrectly I might add, think this site is "full of hype". Because it is not.

[Slippery Jim 65]

GN: I'm harsh, yes, but also fair I believe.

Praiseworthy that your own company acted as you wrote, although that's simply proper business conduct.

But your earlier post dripped with condescension toward visitors who you admit may not have the experience to judge adequately and yet are lured into expensive early-season trips by people who use forums such as this to ``market'' their businesses. You refer to them yet again in your response as idiots. Are they idiots for putting their faith in posts such as yours back in early November predicting a big storm would have the lifts running soon?

I could certainly say that if you're running a for-profit business, all your posts here should be labeled as advertising. I won't, because you generally give sound and often very valuable advice.

But you (and others) seem sometimes unable to switch hats and turn off the marketing, and to then call people idiots and saying you have no sympathy for them for taking you at your word? That's beyond rude.

[RobBright 35]

Originally Posted By: Jynxx

Even this site is full of Hype.

Am also intrigued in this too.

[Go Native 70]

I think most of this is coming from people who are from regions where opening days at a resort must mean there's skiable snow. Where resorts don't 'open' until there's snow on the ground. Here in Japan and in Australia that is not the case. So at least for me it's not something I consider misleading in any way whatsoever. The scheduled opening days are just the day that the resorts are ready to go snow permitting but there is no expectation that there will definitely be skiable snow at that time. In Australia you'd consider yourself lucky to be able to ski on anything beyond man made snow on the opening weekend. It's hard for me to understand the angst people seem to have about this as it's not something I consider unusual.

[Thundercat 60]

Interesting read on this thread.

 

As with most things 'buyer beware' cannot be overstated. If someone is going to throw down a bunch of cash on a ski holiday it's up to them to do a little research on the matter. It doesn't take much snooping to discover that booking a ski holiday for November (even early December) is super risky.

 

My own holidays always start around the 15th (this year quite a bit earlier) but I almost always book my vacation from the 19th or 20th and never on Honshu.

 

I've won and lost gambling on the edges of seasons...

 

Anyway, it's completely up to the customer to understand what they are getting into when buying a holiday like that... If they don't hopefully it's a lesson they can learn from.