Hokkaido Shinkansen - Kutchan (Niseko) stop?

[SKI 15]

Thought this deserves it's own discussion

 

 

http://www.snowjapanforums.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/376466/Re_Narita_to_Tokyo_transfers.html

 

Not for a while, but....!

 

Anyone know the planned stations on the route?

 

[Thundercat 60]

Wonder what the cost would be?

[RobBright 35]

At least google it SKI!

 

The magic of google!

 

[rider69 18]

Quote:

Wonder what the cost would be?

Too Much money. Japan is spending double it's GDP right now.

Taxes or the cost for the trip will have to be high.

[SKI 15]

Ever so sorry Rob, please forgive me.

Kutchan station hey. Wow that will be interesting.

[NoFakie 45]

My bet is that it won't be cheaper than flying. 20,000 plus one way. Just the convenience of going from the city center.

 

Niseko aside perhaps, Hokkaido is ferked economically, but this is not a value-for-money answer.

[grungy-gonads 54]

Will be good for some people though

 

- those that hate the hassle of flying

- those that live in northern Japan or southern Hokkaido

- others I can't think of right now

 

It's not as if it is being made just for the snow peeps.

[KlingKlang 1]

Quote:

The HokkaidÅ Shinkansen (北海é“新幹線) is a high-speed rail line currently under construction between Aomori (HonshÅ«) and HokkaidÅ through the Seikan Tunnel. Construction started in May 2005, and the initial Shin-Aomori to Shin-Hakodate section is projected to open in 2015. There are long-term plans to extend the line to Sapporo. The line will be operated by the Hokkaido Railway Company (JR HokkaidÅ).

TÅhoku and HokkaidÅ Shinkansen services are hoped to be operated at speeds of up to 360 km/h. The proposed journey time from Tokyo to Sapporo is advertised locally as 3 hours, 57 minutes.

So a fair while yet then.

[NoFakie 45]

Every so-called "bridge to nowhere" is good for some people.

 

10% consumption tax here we come.

[grungy-gonads 54]

High speed train linking northern Japan with Hokkaido and eventually Sapporo is 'a bridge to nowhere'?

 

Mr Wiggles, did you think the Shinkansen to Nagano was a fab idea?

[rider69 18]

Sapporo to Tokyo will not equal a profit.

Sapporo to Tokyo will equal a very low used service that will again put the burden on the tax payers.

[SKI 15]

'rider69' has studied these things, you see, and knows all.

[NoFakie 45]

Expensive, unneeded infrastructure=bridge to nowhere.

 

Nagano Shinkansen=possibly a bigger waste of money. I dunno how many posh commuters or rich retirees use it from Karuizawa, but they are probably key. The bit from Nagano to Kanazawa will certainly be a waste of money and Niigata Prefecture have already tried to get out of paying for one of the cost overruns. All these projects assume Tokyo is jam-packed with people who don't travel via other means already but are ready to pay a fortune to go to some not-especially-wonderful provincial city.

 

A lot of the highways are a waste of money too, but at least they carry freight as well as cars and buses.

[iiyamadude 6]

I don't really know enough about it really but find the subject interesting.

 

Doesn't most infrastructure that is developed after the basics come under the header "unneeded"? There are surely lots of benefits to local communities, and presumably to Hokkaido in general, from getting this.

 

Nagano might have been a 'waste of money' in some ways of looking at it, but large numbers of people benefit from it. For example, Hakuba, Shiga Kogen, Nozawa-related businesses all shout out loud about it. Who knows how bad numbers of guests might have been without it and the "unneeded" expressways allowing people to get there much quicker than before.

 

The Niigata thing is complicated because in some ways they are worried that the Nagano Shink will take business away from Niigata, so they are unlikely to want to splash out more.

[rider69 18]

Right now the Japanese government needs to control spending verses GDP period. Wastefull spending will not help anyone living in Japan. The lucky part about the Japanese debt is that it is mostly owned by the Japanese bond holders.

 

Since Ski you seem to know so much about this. What is the ridership goal per year for this line. Where is the profit margin. This isnt Tokyo to Osaka with more that 40000000 people living nearby

[Jynxx 4]

I´ll be surprised if it happens.

[thursday 1]

Seikan tunnel is an ecconomic disaster. Whitest of all elephants.

 

Might as well make use of it eh.

[Jynxx 4]

Getting ready for the Chinese contingent!?

Probably expand Chitise Airport?

[skidaisuki 0]

Mr Wiggles, any idea of the stops that there'll between Nagano and Kanazawa? I can see a basic route map on JR East's website, but it only shows Joetsu and Kanazawa after Nagano.

 

It looks like the route goes north and east from Nagano right round the eastern side North Alps and nowhere near Hakuba or anywhere we'd actually like to go in winter. That's a pity, but then spoiling the Hakuba Valley with a shinkansen line would probably be worse...

 

What makes me laugh is the fact that Kanazawa's shinkansen station was built and completed more than 10 years ago - only about 15 years before the facility can actually be used. How Japanese.

 

SdS

[Karnidge 2]

Joetsu City (to the north of Myoko) in Niigata then on through into Toyama is what I heard.

[RobBright 35]

Originally Posted By: skidaisuki

Mr Wiggles, any idea of the stops that there'll between Nagano and Kanazawa? I can see a basic route map on JR East's website, but it only shows Joetsu and Kanazawa after Nagano.

It looks like the route goes north and east from Nagano right round the eastern side North Alps and nowhere near Hakuba or anywhere we'd actually like to go in winter. That's a pity, but then spoiling the Hakuba Valley with a shinkansen line would probably be worse...

What makes me laugh is the fact that Kanazawa's shinkansen station was built and completed more than 10 years ago - only about 15 years before the facility can actually be used. How Japanese.

SdS

Hokuriki Shinkansen

[rider69 18]

Another example of wasted tax payers money.

[NoFakie 45]

Hi SdS

 

It'll go fairly close to Nozawa, Shiga Kogen and Myoko, though only with one stop at Iiyama. Through the valley up there east of Mt. Myoko I suppose. Lots of good places to go in winter for sure!

 

Thing is that most folks who want to go to these places can get there already for a similar cost (or much less if its Shinkansen) and not incredibly different time. Tokyo is not full of rich enough to go but easily discouraged people who'd get out more and spend loads if places were half an hour closer. That's a myth. Japan's not rolling in money anymore, and the future will be one with lots of oldies supported by not so many young uns. This is not the time for piling up even more debt for vanity projects. Especially not vanity projects with cash handouts that reinforce the existing corrupt political order.

 

Hakuba has few buses to Nagano. Maybe only eight a day and most of them are half empty. If loads of people were coming by Shinkansen via Nagano, you would think there'd be more passengers. And if the Shinkansen didn't exist, people would just come from Tokyo via the other train line that does go to Hakuba, the highway bus, charter buses run by agents, Chuo Taxi, the Hakubus etc. There are lots of different options. From Narita, Chuo Taxi and the Hakubus are much more convenient than getting a train, and then the Shinkansen, and then a bus.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

thats why I don't really go much to Hakuba. I can get a Shink deal that'll take me to Yuzawa then a 20 or so min local/shuttle bus to Kagura or any of the other Yuzawa resorts. Having to take the shink to Nagano then another Bus for an hour or so is a bit too much of a pain in the ass. If I do go to Hakuba its usually by night bus.

[RobBright 35]

And let's be honest - yuzawa is where this season is gonna be at?!