Drug addiction

[pie-eater 207]

A general observation. You just provided a convenient template to use.

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: ger

Yep. Alcohol. It has a huge range of unpredictable effects depending on the person and how much you consume but tend to include a feeling of euphoria, lapse of judgment and coordination, loss of inhibitions often leading to promiscuity, violent tendencies, vomiting, dehydration, passing out and even death.

which can lead to , unwanted pregnancies, rape, infidelity, domestic violence, street violence, family break down, death and injury by road, rail, boat etc.. Add to that the long term health negatives of organ and brain damage.

Quote:

On a personal note, as a parent I'm worried about a lot of things for my children but alcohol ranks up there near the top.

Me too.
A world without alcohol would be a wierd place. I'm not suggesting we out law it's consumption but I think we should question it's place in society just like any other drug.

[RobBright 35]

You say it like promiscuity is a bad thing...

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Originally Posted By: BagOfCrisps

Sorry for bringing up a "side issue" though.
Nowt to do with it hey.
My bad.

thats perfectly ok, I accept your apology

[BagOfCrisps 24]

[kaiser soce 0]

The tough on drugs policy has been in place for ever and drug use seems to be at an all time high.

 

When does the time come where you realise that what you have been doing doesn't work and take a new path?

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Originally Posted By: Soft Landings

The tough on drugs policy has been in place for ever and drug use seems to be at an all time high.

When does the time come where you realise that what you have been doing doesn't work and take a new path?

I agree that there needs to be some lateral thinking on this one. We've been down this path before on a few threads, I'm not for a drug free for all (one of the great reasons of living in Japan is its extremely low drug problem), but something needs to be done in the West to try and stop the drug problem consuming more of the fabric of our culture. I don't know the what, but as Soft Landings said, the current policy has been in place since the year dot and hard drug use and its associated crimes have never been higher.

Personally I feel it'd be better to declassify or re-classify drugs such as weed and ecstasy, and use the funding and man power on the prevention of hard drugs such as Heroin, Crack, Meth etc. The drugs that are at the root of the drug related crime.

[Slippery Jim 65]

Late to the table here, but my $0.02 FWIW:

1. Mandatory treatment (and family intervention if warranted) for minors found using drugs.

2. Complete decriminalization of personal drug use by adults.

3. One-time government-paid treatment upon request for adult drug users, who then become ineligible for any taxpayer-supported medical treatment related to subsequent drug use.

4. On-the-spot execution of any adult caught providing drugs to minors (yes, yes, subject to considerable abuse by police, quis custodiet custodes and all that, but you don't make an omlet without cracking a few eggs).

5. Night in jail for anyone selling minor amounts of drugs to adult; one year in prison for selling over xxx amount first offense; 20 years for second offense.

6. Minimum five years tacked on to standard prison sentence for anyone showing positive for banned drug when caught in crime.

 

Not that all of this combined would fix the problem, but it's a start.

[Mintyjulep 0]

Originally Posted By: Slippery Jim

Late to the table here, but my $0.02 FWIW:
1. Mandatory treatment (and family intervention if warranted) for minors found using drugs.
2. Complete decriminalization of personal drug use by adults.
3. One-time government-paid treatment upon request for adult drug users, who then become ineligible for any taxpayer-supported medical treatment related to subsequent drug use.
4. On-the-spot execution of any adult caught providing drugs to minors (yes, yes, subject to considerable abuse by police, quis custodiet custodes and all that, but you don't make an omlet without cracking a few eggs).
5. Night in jail for anyone selling minor amounts of drugs to adult; one year in prison for selling over xxx amount first offense; 20 years for second offense.
6. Minimum five years tacked on to standard prison sentence for anyone showing positive for banned drug when caught in crime.

Not that all of this combined would fix the problem, but it's a start.

holy crap are you serious? On the spot execution for selling to minors! I mean it's bad, but nothing warrants an on the spot execution.

Something I haven't noticed anyone post yet is young men giving softer drugs to teenage girls, acting like their boyfriends, giving them P (aka meth) getting them hooked and then pimping them out in exchange for more P.
This happened to a few girls from my school, it wasn't a wealthy area, but it wasn't poverty stricken either. Pretty sad. One of my sisters best friends always tried to dress like her slutty big sister (because she thought her sister looked beautiful) she was raped at 15 and then approached by one of the guys i mentioned above, she fell in love with him thinking he was kind and disappeared shortly after he started pimping her

I agree with pot being decriminalised - i think it is far safer than alcohol.
But things like P use by truck drivers needs to be looked into as there are some psycho truckies here in NZ I hate dealing with them at work.

[Slippery Jim 65]

Holier crap, are you serious?

There's lots of things that call for on-the-spot execution -- drugging teenage girls and then pimping them out, for example. To say nothing of poaching MY line on a powder day!

 

I really don't understand the whole ``human life is sacred'' screed, maybe because to me religion and the entire god mythology is just a bunch of superstitious nonsense. Humans may be self-aware, and fairly close to the top of the food chain (apologies to any grizzlies or orcas that may be reading this), but we're just another class of animal and if anything too damn many of us are cluttering up the earth as it is.

 

But relax, Minty, people aren't smart enough to make me the global dictator so it ain't a gonna happen nohow.

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver

Personally I feel it'd be better to declassify or re-classify drugs such as weed and ecstasy, and use the funding and man power on the prevention of hard drugs such as Heroin, Crack, Meth etc. The drugs that are at the root of the drug related crime.

Not so sure I subscribe to the 'weed is a soft drug' theory TB. From what I understand, pot is responsible for more phycological related admissions than any other drug. Sure, they might not be running down the mall with a samurai sword in a g-sting like an ice addict but they have a lot of other mental issues going on.

[gerard 6]

Originally Posted By: Mantas

Not so sure I subscribe to the 'weed is a soft drug' theory TB. From what I understand, pot is responsible for more phycological related admissions than any other drug. Sure, they might not be running down the mall with a samurai sword in a g-sting like an ice addict but they have a lot of other mental issues going on.

Maybe because it's still simply the most accessible drug - more so than alcohol - for young people, but I don't know.... I think of pot as being pretty "soft" but one problem is that the pot that's around these days is several times stronger than the stuff that was around 20 years ago.

It's interesting to look at Japan's approach. For all the misedcuation about drugs in this country, they're obviously doing something right. I wonder how long they can keep the general public in the dark.

[gerard 6]

>on-the-spot execution

 

Seems a little OTT, no?

[jared 0]

The stronger it is, the less you smoke, the less you smoke the lower the chance you are damaging your lungs. Does that not lead to the conclusion that pot is less damaging to lungs now than ever before.

 

Getting too baked isn't that pleasent, people will smoke enough to their desired level of highness rather than smoke a fixed amount of pot. The "pot now is soo different to the stuff in the 60's" arguement us just used to try to convince the baby boomers that have tried pot and know it is not that bad that is is bad now.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

I actually typed a big post yesterday but didn't submit it in time before the forum was closed down.....now I've forgotten most of what I had said.

 

Basically along the lines of I feel that resources, stretched as they are already, would be better used pursuing the production and trafficking of hard drugs such as heroin, crack and meth etc than drugs such as weed and ecstasy. the reason being that users of weed and ecstasy have very little impact on the people around the user. The user takes it, feels good then comes down. They have a tiny social-impact footprint on society at large. These users hold down jobs, pay their taxes, generally abide by the law. The hard drugs by contrast have a big social-impact footprint. The heavy user will often turn to crime to feed his habit, will find it difficult to hold down a job, allows his/her personal hygeine to worsen and house to fall into disrepair and generally become a strain and a problem for society. If the Police were allowed to focus on these drugs perhaps the resulting crimes and impact on society would fall

[gerard 6]

I think so too. But in practice, that's pretty much what they do now, isn't it? I don't think the cops waste a lot of resources in Canada anyway trying to weed out all the potheads and throw them in the slammer. Except for busting large organize-crime controlled grow-ops....

[Tubby Beaver 209]

perhaps weed has come down to that, but I reckon the cops waste a lot of time on E users, when the only harm they are potentially doing is to themselves. Even top toxicologists have came out and called for a declassification and sometimes a decriminalisation of E

[gerard 6]

Is E considered a hard drug, then? The classifications are different in N. America and UK I guess but I heard something to that effect. Anything hallucinogenic is probably difficult to categorize on the same linear scale I think.

[Slippery Jim 65]

Quote:

>on-the-spot execution

lol Seems a little OTT, no?

Not at all! I personally would prefer something a bit more discouraging -- slow strangulation, perhaps -- but I recognize that modern society has become rather weak-kneed and there would be protests, so I'm willing to compromise on a quick bullet between the eyes.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Originally Posted By: ger

Is E considered a hard drug, then? The classifications are different in N. America and UK I guess but I heard something to that effect. Anything hallucinogenic is probably difficult to categorize on the same linear scale I think.

Its a Class A in the UK along with Cocaine, Heroin, Crack. Is it not in N.America?

[SKI 15]

Aren't longer-term effects on the brain of E only recently becoming known?

 

(?) Sure I read something along those lines a while back.

[mitchpee 10]

Originally Posted By: SKI

Aren't longer-term effects on the brain of E only recently becoming known?

(?) Sure I read something along those lines a while back.

The problem with E in the US is that the only highly pronounced tests were later proven to have been methanphetamine, not ecstasy. So there are a ton of questions to be answered.

My friend gave me this documentary once, and I found it to be a very interesting watch.

[Mintyjulep 0]

Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver

I feel that resources, stretched as they are already, would be better used pursuing the production and trafficking of hard drugs such as heroin, crack and meth etc than drugs such as weed and ecstasy. the reason being that users of weed and ecstasy have very little impact on the people around the user. The user takes it, feels good then comes down. They have a tiny social-impact footprint on society at large. These users hold down jobs, pay their taxes, generally abide by the law.

I have heard exactly the same argument from a heroin advocate believe it or not! On John Safran's speaking in tongues I believe it was.

linky
http://anonymouslefty.blogspot.com/2006/01/how-not-to-balance-debate-about-heroin.html

My favourite bit - Father Bob: My advice to you, listeners, ladies and gentlemen, especially the younger members of our watching audience: Get high on life. Be in it. Don't waste your energy, chasing the dragon. Except with Narnia. In the wardrobe.

disclaimer - I'm totally against all illegal drugs bar pot, E, and acid.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Originally Posted By: SKI

Aren't longer-term effects on the brain of E only recently becoming known?

(?) Sure I read something along those lines a while back.

the real trouble is SKI that proper testing hasn't been done as governments keep too tight a lid of control on the substances used to synthesize E. So non-politicised results are few and far between.

Again though, thats not really my point. While excessive use of E may cause harm to your brain, the people who use E are not generally the ones who are the perpetrators of the drug related crime. So the effect that E users have on society is extremely minimal, they may have a very serious effect on themselves but they are choosing to do that (as millions of people do everyday with the harmful effects of tobacco and alcohol)

[Slippery Jim 65]

Provided, of course, that they're not driving home under the ``influence.''