Drug addiction

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Originally Posted By: Slippery Jim

Provided, of course, that they're not driving home under the ``influence.''

of course....again in the same vein (pardon the pun) as alcohol. More social problems are caused by alcohol use than E use

[BagOfCrisps 24]

I think it's safe to say that way many more people drink alcohol than use E.

[Slippery Jim 65]

Of course, it's perfectly possible to, for example, have a glass of wine with dinner and still drive safely.

Is this possible with a drug like ecstasy? (I ask because I've no experience with it, and don't expect I ever will.) My impression is that the experience is pretty binary -- you're either up or not -- and not really subject to adjustment.

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver

the reason being that users of weed and ecstasy have very little impact on the people around the user. The user takes it, feels good then comes down. They have a tiny social-impact footprint on society at large.

I'll never forget the night we had to physical restrain this dude for 30 mins. until the cop came. He just stabbed his flat mate 7 times with a pair of scissors. He was a habitual pot smoker suffering a huge bout of psychosis.
My own brother has spent time in an institution for pot related psychosis .

I guess this is the type of person I'm referring to. The 'habitual user'.
Pot is a huge de-motivator for a lot of people and should never be referred to as 'just pot'

[mitchpee 10]

Originally Posted By: Mantas

Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver

the reason being that users of weed and ecstasy have very little impact on the people around the user. The user takes it, feels good then comes down. They have a tiny social-impact footprint on society at large.

I'll never forget the night we had to physical restrain this dude for 30 mins. until the cop came. He just stabbed his flat mate 7 times with a pair of scissors. He was a habitual pot smoker suffering a huge bout of psychosis.
My own brother has spent time in an institution for pot related psychosis .

I guess this is the type of person I'm referring to. The 'habitual user'.
Pot is a huge de-motivator for a lot of people and should never be referred to as 'just pot'

I am not discrediting your post at all...

perhaps what he smoked contained something else, remnants of PCP or something like that?

I have never ever seen anyone EVER physically abuse/assault/anything while under the influence of marijuana and I have been around a lot of it. I have talked to numerous amounts of my dad's friends who admit to smoking marijuana heavily, lightly, or even still after 20-30 years. None of them have ever had any sort of mental illness result. I have never come across anyone that has had a mental illness result from heavy or occasional marijuana use. Again, not discrediting your story at all, but there may have been more than marijuana influence going on there. Just things from my perspective.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Originally Posted By: Slippery Jim

Of course, it's perfectly possible to, for example, have a glass of wine with dinner and still drive safely.
Is this possible with a drug like ecstasy? (I ask because I've no experience with it, and don't expect I ever will.) My impression is that the experience is pretty binary -- you're either up or not -- and not really subject to adjustment.

Yeah I'd deffo agree that you shouldn't be driving while on E, but the same can be said for alcohol. Many Doctors and alcohol counsellors also push for the zero tolerance of drink while driving. (that even 1 drink has an effect on your reaction times) Having taken both, I'd def say that I could have 1 beer and feel fine but couldn't say the same about a tab.

Mantas, sure excessive use may and can cause psychological problems, but again what is the difference to alcohol? Excessive use of alcohol also brings on psychological and physical disorders. If the government feels it can regulate alcohol use, why couldn't it regulate pot use?

Just for the record, I've had my fun and I don't use any recreational drugs anymore. I'm not some pot smoking, pill popping fruit loop hoping for an endless party. I just hate everytime I go home or read the paper (online) and I hear about more and more of my city disintegrating because of hard drug use and feel that zero-tolerance to drugs hasn't worked and perhaps the Police and the government need to think more laterally to get a handle on this.

[gerard 6]

Originally Posted By: MitchPee

My friend gave me this documentary once, and I found it to be a very interesting watch.

Yea, that's really interesting. I'm watching part 3 of 5 right now. "Ecstasy Rising", it's called. Kind of nostagic too, with lots of footage from the late 80's/early 90's. Nancy and Ron Reagan in there, and the whole thing is narrated by Peter Jennings.

X was just coming on the scene as I was finishing up University. Then I came to Japan shortly after that so I kind of missed out on the whole scene unfortunately. One of my current close friends who's around 10 years younger was really into it in Calgary a number of years ago. She's seen her friends start to burn out on it and get depressed and stuff. She's also seen at least one of her friends go into convulsions on it at a club, then take it again the next evening. Too much of a good thing, I suppose.

X is considered 'schedule 1' in the US along with pretty much every other drug that people take recreationally. It's a different sort of classification system.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

yeah Ger I've known a fair few people get messed up with heavy heavy use. When i was into it, it did cross my mind about "wonder what this is actually doing to me". Its also difficult to know whether the serous side effects (such as convulsons etc) are to do with the drug itself or the crap its mixed with. It didn't produce an addictive effect though. Its not like you wake up and you need to take another to get over the come-down a-la heroin and crack. You can take it or leave it, TBH I didn't do it unless we were in a club, seemed pretty pointless to me to do it anywhere else.

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: MitchPee

I have never ever seen anyone EVER physically abuse/assault/anything while under the influence of marijuana and I have been around a lot of it.

The problem Mitch is when they are NOT under the influence of Marijuana that they have problems. Your a young guy Mitch right? Stick around and watch the carnage. I'm in my mid forties. The guys that I grew up with that smoked weed heavily for years, have nearly all gone nuts in one way or other. One guy wont even leave his house!

Like TB says, it's in the same realms as alcohol as far as the impact on ones mental and physical health. I think my gripe is more with people who try to promote marijuana use for 'medicinal' reasons even if they don't have any thing that they are particularly trying to treat. It says more about their need to rebel against the norm IMO.
The cons far out way the pros as far as I can see.

[Mintyjulep 0]

I have to agree with Mitch here - I've spent a lot of time around pot (being a Kiwi it's pretty much unavoidable)

 

The only way I can think of that someone could develop psychosis through habitual pot use would be if what they had been smoking was laced with something (horse tranq is very very common for instance, but you can lace it with almost anything you want, I think lacing is more common overseas)

 

Besides lacing, perhaps an underlying disorder which maybe hadn't raised it's head yet. I know schizophrenia is often triggered by drugs for instance.

 

Depression however is a very common mental illness which arises through habitual pot use.

 

I have met hundreds of pot smokers over my life, and I have met dozens of P smokers. Guess who was aggressive and guess who was pretty content. You never hear about pot smokers running around with samurai swords cutting peoples hands off. The WORST pot story I have ever heard (on the radio, no one I know) was a guy putting his baby in the oven to keep her warm. She wasn't hurt at all, but she was in there for a few hours and it could have ended badly.

[SantaCruz 0]

Correlation does not imply causality.

 

I think a key point here is that while it's natural to expect that one's experiences is representative of general trends, it's not always true. The only way I can think of to determine the long terms affect of pot would be to do a scientific experiment, get some epidemiologists involved, etc.

[RobBright 35]

A longitudinal study then?

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: SantaCruz

Correlation does not imply causality.

I think a key point here is that while it's natural to expect that one's experiences is representative of general trends, it's not always true. The only way I can think of to determine the long terms affect of pot would be to do a scientific experiment, get some epidemiologists involved, etc.

I agree.
I'm not about to embark on a google mission to support my view. It's a perspective I have based from my own personal experiences, that's all. I just find it more than a coincidence that almost every heavy pot smoker I've ever known in the last 30 years has had some form of social and mental issue.