cal 6 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 OK the other day I was skiing with my friend who had an accident. We only managed 90 minutes and had to leave. I didn't do this, but the thought crossed my mind later that I should have tried to 'sell' the ticket to someone just arriving. I looked back on some old tickets and it seems some say you must not and will be prosecuted and others say nothing like that. So I suppose my question is - is it illegal to do that, or only where it states as such and regardless of that is it just wrong to sell on a ticket (and therefore wrong to buy one from someone like that)? Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Guess if its on the sly and not for profit then don't see why not? Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hey, you are in Japan. Give them to a youngster... I remember being given tickets from Onisan Onesan (big brother, big sister, terms of endearment) when I was young. I thought they were cool, and it is a fond memory about Japanese snow scene... sometimes it's not about money... if you are going to sell it, sell it to another gaijin. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I am sure none of the places would be thrilled if you on sold a ticket because they then would miss out on that sale (they already had yours). I know every resort I have been too it was quite clear the tickets were "non-transferrable". However having said that.... I do know some people who have purchased tickets that they were then unable to use, and they did on sell them to mates, or "new mates" they met at the pub, but for a fraction of thier face value. So if the person was going to buy a $80 day ticket and you gave him yours that you couldn't use you would take a tenner for it perhaps. I have also known situations where a valid lift ticket that was unable to be used was given away - and that makes you feel like Santa ;-) I would think that if you were caught HAWKING the ticket then you may well be able to be prosecuted. Link to post Share on other sites
@tokyo 14 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Friend of mine tried to last year and the Mr Majime he tried to sell to (at just 1000 yen) went off to report him to the police! (He got away before anything happened!) Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 My friends and I used to buy full-day electronic tickets from people who were returning them for their deposits around lunch time. It's amazing how many people buy full day tickets and then only ski until lunch. We used to hang around the deposit return machines which are located next to the ticket sales window. This was always done in full view of the staff who never even made an attempt to stop us. We only ever paid the deposit of 1000Y each time. It was years ago so of course things could have changed. That's just my experience. Now that I can actually afford the full price I always pay it. I understand that it costs a lot for these resorts to operate so I don't mind paying. Link to post Share on other sites
gerard 6 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I sold my ticket a couple weeks ago and took a bit of a loss so I could go to another resort in the afternoon where I paid for another half day ticket at the window. So I ended up buying two tickets on the up and up but sold one under the radar. Probably against the rules but sounds OK to me. I feel kind of bad for J-resorts that are seeing declining customers and selling themselves so cheap. I can't feel too bad about scoring a cheap/dodgy pass for a big corporate skihill like Whistler though. Link to post Share on other sites
gurgle 0 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 It is illegal, so it depends on your view about breaking the law or stealing things. I would not steal something, but I may drive over the speed limit. I would put this topic in the "stealing" category though, so I won't buy or sell used lift tickets. It's kind of like like insurance cheats, in the end it just means more expensive tickets for everyone else. Someone has to pay for the lifts to operate. Link to post Share on other sites
keba 0 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 It's the same as ripping a copy of a friend's purchased CD. I've done both, and sleep well at night. Link to post Share on other sites
keba 0 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 And occasionally I drive over the speed limit. Link to post Share on other sites
Hotaka Scott 0 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: ger I feel kind of bad for J-resorts that are seeing declining customers and selling themselves so cheap. I can't feel too bad about scoring a cheap/dodgy pass for a big corporate skihill like Whistler though. x2 As an individual, the 1000 yen a person can save on a lift ticket can feel like a lot of money, but keep in mind this is money not going to the resort. Most of the smaller ones are operating at a loss as it is, and while I don't think the selling/buying of lift tickets is a widespread issue, it does hurt them a bit financially. Less money for staff, patrol, upgrades, equipment, etc. Just a little food for thought. Link to post Share on other sites
s3phis 0 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Mmm, as Hotaka and Ger said, you might feel a bit of animosity towards staff but most of the people at schools and resorts work off minimum wage. When you consider they have to pay for their dorms, only get paid on the days there is work and even only then get paid like 5,000-7,000 yen a day, it does hurt a lot of people. The big, corporate resorts generally charge higher costs but they're looking to make profits; the smaller ones tend to be glad if they can break even. At Noz, it's like Y4,600 for a day pass... compared to $96 at Mt Buller. Trading the AUD for 60 yen, you're looking at $77 anyway... $46 at 100 yen. More food for thought: if you like the resort, support it; they deserve it. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Interesting topic indeed ... love how this has developed. Now take the selling of tix aside... What about you are hurt - you have 3 days left on your tix and are heading home, but your mate who just arrived has not bought his tix yet. All common sense and mateship says - give him your tix - but that does take cash out of the resorts pocket that it would otherwise have obtained if not for your generous spirit toward your mate. I would give the tix to my mate, and sleep well at night. I tend to support any resort I visit very generously - many eatings out, many nights at the bar, lessons, lift tix and long stays... so I would be OK with it. How would you feel? Link to post Share on other sites
gurgle 0 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: Mamabear Interesting topic indeed ... love how this has developed. Now take the selling of tix aside... What about you are hurt - you have 3 days left on your tix and are heading home, but your mate who just arrived has not bought his tix yet. All common sense and mateship says - give him your tix - but that does take cash out of the resorts pocket that it would otherwise have obtained if not for your generous spirit toward your mate. I would give the tix to my mate, and sleep well at night. I tend to support any resort I visit very generously - many eatings out, many nights at the bar, lessons, lift tix and long stays... so I would be OK with it. How would you feel? Mamabear - Personally, I wouldn't have a moral issue with this situation and would do the same. Does anyone have any idea if unused tickets can be refunded at any of the resorts ? I think the issue in question though is when you re-sell a ticket that has been used that day. I would not for a number of reasons, illegal, it's cheating and not to mention the cultural issues of gaijin hanging around at ticket counters trying to sell tickets - it does not look good. (not that anyone said this practice was specific to foreigners, but from my experience it is generally the case - maybe the locals are more subtle about it, I don't know). Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 you know what I think? you know what I think. Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: keba It's the same as ripping a copy of a friend's purchased CD. I've done both, and sleep well at night. Not quite mate. I think a better comparison would be buying the CD (for a discount) from your friend once they've listened to it a few times! Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: gurgle Does anyone have any idea if unused tickets can be refunded at any of the resorts ? Not one resort I have ever been would refund a ticket, even if the resort closes the lifts because of weather, etc. As for the bad cultural image... well, I learned that little trick from a Japanese friend, we just don't blend in as well as they do! Link to post Share on other sites
Borat 0 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I'm with Rob on this one. Hey I will need a half day ticket on March 19th Niseko, two actually. If anyone has a ticket/s for that day and they will be flying back, cant go etc.. would be much appreciated if you keep me in mind. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 attracting the wrong clientele chaps. Link to post Share on other sites
gareth_oau 2 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Ive seen a few people here state that its illegal. I'm a bit surprised by this, they have criminal legislation in place to enforce this? a special Task Force with sniper rifles? I support the concept that if i buy something, then I can legitimately onsell (or give away) the unused portion. If the resort has sold a day's ride on the lifts, then either one person (or two people) will be getting full use of what was originally sold. Its not like you are onselling the ticket, and continuing to ride at the same time Link to post Share on other sites
keba 0 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Well articulated Gareth. Why should they be able to double-dip? Point taken Black Mountain. Your analogy is better, and even easier to be at peace with. Link to post Share on other sites
gurgle 0 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: gareth_oau Ive seen a few people here state that its illegal. I'm a bit surprised by this, they have criminal legislation in place to enforce this? a special Task Force with sniper rifles? I support the concept that if i buy something, then I can legitimately onsell (or give away) the unused portion. If the resort has sold a day's ride on the lifts, then either one person (or two people) will be getting full use of what was originally sold. Its not like you are onselling the ticket, and continuing to ride at the same time If you buy something that is "not transferable" you are contractually bound not to transfer it to another person. Agreed, if you on-sell it to another person you are not both using the ticket at the same time, but that is not the terms of the contract that you agreed to when you bought the ticket. The ticket is for one person only. If everyone on-sold their tickets every day then I reckon half the resorts in Japan would be closed....probably not a good thing for any of us. Link to post Share on other sites
s3phis 0 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Gareth: it's not going to be enforced as, say, drink driving as but if you are found breaking terms of contract, you are legally responsible for adhereing to those terms. If you don't you are subject to the penalties what ever the resort states. That's the legal side of it. The moral side is a lot more complicated. Did you enjoy the resort? The only reason you may or may not have experienced prejudice against you is the manner in which people before you conducted themselves. Being Japan, this is a crucial point. If enjoyed the resort and you want to keep enjoying it, it's selfish to specifically search for loopholes to exploit. The resorts are most likely not going to heavily pursue the legal issues but compounding effect of your actions will leave an impression on the resort(s). You have the option of doing what you want or doing what is asked of you; you're most likely not going to be thrown in jail for it but you will find the locals more grateful. Personally, rather than punishing offenders, I think appealing to people is a better option. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 To some extent, the resorts are responsible for this in the first place by not offering more flexible pricing. Especially the ones with electronic tickets where its just a little bit of programming. You get people passing on tickets because they have *paid for* tickets that are longer than necessary, often in an entirely predictable manner that was known when the purchase was made. How about a two-hour ticket for 2500? Or extending a half day pass to 1pm not noon? Or offering the lodges that sell discounted passes 1.5 day tickets instead of just 1 day ones and 2 day ones? There are lots of ways of reducing the number of people with left-over tickets if the resorts wanted to. I think there is some kind of hour-based ticket at Niseko, so credit to them for thinking outside of the box and considering their customers' needs. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 yes they do Mr Wiggles. 1 point 5 hour 8 hour night pass 5-hour pair ticket for an adult & a child Link to post Share on other sites
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