IIIII 2 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Have you ever been in the situation at work where you are working on big projects where the client(s) are complete and utter fools? So stuck up their own arse without having much of a clue about what their work should be? I am in that situation right now. The client really is an imbecile, and it is affecting my work because of all the time waster "working" with this guy. He is totally unqualified for what he is doing, very pompous, etc etc. It is mindblowingly frustrating, I can't easily go to anyone else in his company, and I am finding it harder to contain myself. This project has another 6 months or so to go. I'm afraid I'm going to shout out loud about it. I suppose it is just as bad (worse) to work with imbeciles as colleagues. How do you cope with imbeciles? Link to post Share on other sites
mogski 0 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 You wouldn't be working with somebody from my company perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites
danz 0 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 very frustrating...I know... had to work with a patent lawyer last year...the guy was supposedly technically qualified, but wouldn't know his ass from his head unless I showed it to him...what should have taken about a month took more than 3... danz : "for the invention to work, x must equal 3" lawyer: "ok, so here is the legal statement: x may equal 3, or any other number, for the invention to work" danz : "no, if x = 4, the world blows up, x can only = 3" lawyer: "ohhh, now I get it, how about this : x may equal 3, or any other number except 4, for the invention to work" ahhhhh... danz Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Just turn it into a massive joke - flatter the guy outrageously, humour his mistakes, give him big attaboys when he gets something right, and enjoy your (paid) time in his company. Let your bosses know that you're working with a complete moron, that it's taking up a lot of your time, but that you're making sure the moron leaves with a good impression of your company. Take plenty of tea breaks and ask the moron how he spends his 'off' time. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Danz That sounds how the legal part, called the "claims", of a patent application are normally written. Non-limitative language is used to obtain the widest possible scope of protection for the technology. If the claim says "3" and "3" only, rival companies can avoid infringement by using 2.9999 or 3.0001. It can make the patent meaningless. In some cases limitative language is necessary for differentiation from conventional techniques or due to the special effects that may be obtained when a limitative range is used. This may apply in your case. However, just because a patent attorney is unwilling or slow to accept something as limitative doesn't make him an idiot per se. If anything, an incompetent patent practitioner would write down "3 only" without asking any further questions. Of course, your fellow may still be an idiot. I am only commenting on the evidence you gave. Link to post Share on other sites
danz 0 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 well NoFakie...I was simplifying the problem just a little bit I learned all about the importance of legal jargon during the process...enough so to know when the language completely changed the meaning of the invention, or even its technical validity...so actually, 2.9999 doesn't work, and the world will be destroyed, invalidating the patent ...and if the lawyer understood the technical content it should never have been an issue...I practically had to tutor the guy on how to do addition even though he claimed to have a masters degree in the field of the invention! it was frustrating...very frustrating danz Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 One thing many have worked out here, is that the more you do, the more you are given to do. Chill out, act like a moron, take three months to do one month's work, the pays the same, the hours are the same, so why stress... It pays to become stupid... Link to post Share on other sites
cakehead 0 Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 I work with idiots. I think so anyway - they probably think I am. I find it hard to have good ningen kankei with them. Link to post Share on other sites
oo 1 Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Are you? People are really lucky if they find somewhere where they get on really well with everyone around them - must be few and far between. Link to post Share on other sites
r45 4 Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 I work with some decent people - quite happy about that. Link to post Share on other sites
veronica 2 Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Luckily I like and respect the majority of people I work with. My friend is in a similar situation to you though and it really frustrates him. Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Danz, let me enlarge upon your example scenario, using the latest in sophisticated legal analysis: danz : "for the invention to work, x must equal 3" lawyer: 1. TO DANZ: "ok, so here is the legal statement: x may equal 3, or any other number, for the invention to work" 2. TO TIMESHEET: "Analyze and review technical parameters of project (1.20); draft sample protective language for client review (1.50); draft explanatory cover letter and forward draft to client (.50); telephone conference to explain technical application of patent law to client device, further meeting with client, follow-up telephone call and explanatory e-mail (2.70); review letter from client Danz revising technical parameters in light of application of patent law principles (.50); analayze and review applicable codes and discuss with supervising partner (1.50)." Get it? Link to post Share on other sites
danz 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 man... have I offended some lawyers on here sorry... I guess I need to qualify my statements better...but that doesnt change my opinion about this guy a had...I know the routine, been through it before with a very competent lawyer, and it was a painless process...this guy stunk! danz Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Offend a lawyer? Is that possible? If so, you ought to market the method. It would be a million-seller for sure. Lawyer or not, sounds like you were working with an idiot (wow...that is the title of this thread...). Link to post Share on other sites
nosaka 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Lawyers get a bad wrap. I have many good friends who are lawyers. Not one of them a git. Face the fact that there are many many kinds of lawyers and practices and many of them are good. Link to post Share on other sites
yodel 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 I think the Japanese people I work with think they are working with an idiot. They often treat me that way. The feeling is mutual. Link to post Share on other sites
MistaSparkle 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Kinda off topic, but... Had a company meeting today and at the end, management opened up the meeting to questions about anything... I was shocked when a guy I work with asked the president of my company point blank, "why are there no bonuses this year, and why haven't salaries been raised at all?" The president, totally unfazed, replied with a slick politicians answer. Something along the lines of "Well we really want to but, blah blah blah, shoganai..." So the guy fired back, in an accusatory tone, "we've heard the same thing for the past three years, and still nothing's improved!"... his shot was dodged quite well, but I was kinda shocked at how he put the president on the spot in front of everyone. I wouldn't blink an eye if I heard someone ask that at an american company, and even though I know this guy plans on leaving the company soon, it still seemed very "un-Japanese." Anyone ever witness something like that? Link to post Share on other sites
danz 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 hey Mista*, I've seen that too where I work...we have small round-table meetings with the big-boss about 2times a year...open to any questions, and everything from bonuses to bathrooms are discussed... the boss always nods his head, jots some notes, bs's an answer, and nothing ever seems to change... I've also seen that at the 1 american company I spent considerable time with...but yah, a bit suprised to see that in nippon... danz Link to post Share on other sites
proudtobegay 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Quote: the boss always nods his head, jots some notes, bs's an answer, and nothing ever seems to change... Some people just do not seem to even being to comprehend the many complex issues that are sometimes at work in running a company, especially a big one. Perhaps the boss looked into doing something about the points raised, but they were not possible for any number of reasons. Perhaps you only notice any changes that you personally are interested in. Perhaps you just want to diss the manager. Funny how he is in that position, not you. Oh its oh so easy to be an unqualified "big guy" know it all typing for hours a day on an internet forum ----- I often wonder if some of you would actually believe yourself if you sat back and thought about it. Oh yeah - you probably would. Link to post Share on other sites
mogski 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Correct me if I wroong 21C, but staff morale is the make or break of a company right? You lose that you got a hard time getting it back. I agree that money is the not the means to morale, but it goes a long way to helping improve it. Case at hand: Removing every second light bulb in a company building and removing the paper towels (to dry ones hands after washing them) in an effort to reduce sundaries in a cash strapped company. At the same time continue to have drivers for your 40+ executive managers and their salaries untouched along with their jobs. Aint going very far in convincing your staff that you are working to toward returning your company to profit there we? Don't do much for staff morale either. I know that if I were in a position of excutive management I too would work to keep my perks, but if I am the company man I am making myself out to be (NOT ME! Hypothetical case OK?) then I think I would look to the long term and ensure that my staff were looked after, because ultimately it is them that I must rely on to bring my situation back to a happy one. So if you have a boss whom takes notes and does not act on this in any manner or comes back with some excuse why they cannot support you, the staff, then you gotta wonder why that person is the boss in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites
proudtobegay 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 I am not disagreeing with you, mogski. But sometimes it is absolutely impossible to keep all employees happy all of the time. The management may well be doing everything that they possibly can (maybe not), but it is not always possible for a zillion possible reasons. Along with that is the fact that some people will ALWAYS ALWAYS moan about management - whatever they do and however much they work on this issue. Its part of the psyche of "not being management" for some types of individuals. Thats all I am saying. Link to post Share on other sites
danz 0 Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 I get it 21C, its kind of like you presuming you know about my professional qualifications and insights about corporate management... or you presuming the questions I ask are nothing more than moaning and whining... or that you have any idea about my work environment and the cuture of the company I work at... spare me... danz Link to post Share on other sites
cheeseman 1 Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 I think that meeting would be transformed if only they brought in a platter of cheese and crackers. Then everyone would get on, and the problems would disappear. Not to mention the great time and friendships that would arise from sharing the delicious and nutritious foodstuff we all love known as cheese. Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Great advice cheeseman. While 21C didn't word it particularly well, I know where he's coming from, from (limited) experience. But I know exactly what you're saying too danz. Sound like a bunch of plebs if you ask me. There's seems to be so much "stale" management in Japanese companies, it reeks. Link to post Share on other sites
r45 4 Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I work with a bunch of really cool people, no complaints there. Now if only I got more money. Link to post Share on other sites
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