Refugees not welcome in Japan

[Davo 1]

Good to see Japans pathetic record on actually doing something about the global refugee problem getting some exposure here http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,1399003,00.html

 

There is something very shameful and fundamentally wrong about the world's second richest country accepting less than 100 refugees per year. Koizumi wants to be seen as a big-time "World leader", for Japan to expand its international role. He should stop posturing and pull finger over as few issues such as this.

[69 5]

It sure is better than other countries (like the UK) accepting huge numbers of people every year. I don't know if I'm just being totally insensitive or out on my own here, but I don't see how it's such a bad thing.

[jared 0]

 Quote:

It sure is better than other countries (like the UK) accepting huge numbers of people every year. I don't know if I'm just being totally insensitive or out on my own here, but I don't see how it's such a bad thing.

Yes you are "insensitive" and you can add to that ignorant, cruel, selfish, intolerant and likely racist.
more on this later I'm going skiing.

[69 5]

Well I'll consider myself "told" then.

 

(Not that I care of course, being totally insensitive, ignorant, cruel, selfish, intolerant and likely racist, of course)

[js 0]

On the very rare occasion I get tagged a rascist, I simply state:

 

'Hey, I'm an Aussie - we don't discriminate, we hate everybody!'

[sakebomb 0]

And things like this Sometimes I think this country can be pretty insensitive sometimes-discrimination is rife here!

Been the brunt of it a couple of times. Got hissed at the other day when I went to an onsen, and its not the first time. Could be p*nis envy!

[xxx 2]

Accepting refugees and racism/discrimination are fundamentally different issues.

[Siem Reeves 0]

so what exactly is wrong with accepting "huge numbers of refugees" then, 69? do you not think giving people another chance in life is a kind and generous thing to do? coming from a family who fled their country with their lives and the clothes on their backs, i think that japan could definately do with being a little more sensitive.

[69 5]

I think there are tons of things wrong with it.

Off the top of my head:

 

How many do you accept?

Do you put a limit on that number?

If so, why?

Can anyone come?

From which countries?

Why those countries?

How do you define the conditions?

Where do they live?

What benefits are they entitled to?

Who pays for those?

And for how long?

 

etc etc.

[jstepp 0]

I like seeing a good mixture of cultures and ethnicities, its good for many things, especially the gene pool... which is something that Japan could work on.

 

How about the US policy on Cuban fugees? If you can make it past the Coast Guard then you're in!!

[Yuki's Passion 1]

 Quote:

Originally posted by xxx:
Accepting refugees and racism/discrimination are fundamentally different issues.

Really? Do you think that a country like Japan, which prides itself as being a homogenous country, even though Japanese themselves discriminate against minority groups like the Ainu and Burakumin, its *somewhat racist* (note somewhat) attitude towards foreigners, would want more foreigners here, especially refugees? It disgusts me but I dont think so.

http://www.asahi.com/english/nation/TKY200501270135.html

This is blatantly racist IMO. Just because shes a second generation Korean? Heres an excerpt:

"Chong, who was born in Iwate Prefecture, expressed disgust at the top court's decision.

``It is an appalling ruling. I would like to tell the whole world, `Don't come to Japan. If you do, you'll be treated like a robot with no rights and only pay taxes,'' Chong said.

She added that such inequality would eventually become a larger problem if Japan accepts foreign workers to fill an expected labor shortage."

Why do you think they would take refugees when they wont even let Japan-born Koreans the chance to become managers? I think they are, at least, somewhat related... at least in today's Japan. They have never been open to the outside world, except things such as Gucci and Louis Vuitton

I think Japan would shell out the money to help the victims, especially if it meant they didnt have to come here. I find it truly sad.

[jared 0]

69, you raised some questions, you didnt mention any problems.

 

How many do you accept? As many as your country can resonably intergrate into your society.

 

Do you put a limit on that number? Yes, of course.

 

If so, why? as a hospital puts a limit on the number of patients it accepts so should a country put a limit on the number of refugees it accepts.

 

Can anyone come? Anyone the UN classafies as a refugee, yes.

 

From which countries? Any country.

 

Why those countries? n/a

 

How do you define the conditions? use the existing UN ones.

 

Where do they live? Anywhere you can.

 

What benefits are they entitled to? All the benifits you are.

 

Who pays for those? The tax payer, which the refugees will be one of as soon as they get a job.

 

And for how long? Until they die.

 

 

99% of the reasons given to reject refugees are bs. They are given by people like yourself who dont want to live next to someone who is different from themselves.

[mattlucas 0]

You got it before I did CS

And you did a good job as well

 

I'm going back to the Snow forum now.

[js 0]

Lets make a distinction - there are two basic types of refugees:

 

1. Political

2. Economic

 

The first should get priority treatment via a substantiated test because they're usually threatened with incarceration or death.

 

The second are simply trying to get somewhere better to live for the sake of living standards - these are the dubious ones that definitly need to be processed through a 'Means Test'.

 

I live in a suburb with 150+ different nationalities and where most are 1st-2nd generation Aussies. Other than the odd communication problem, the benefits greatly outweigh the negatives - most work hard, and we have the best variety of restaurants in the country!

 

I'm all for a multicultural society (enhanced gene pool!), BUT REALISTICALLY, checks and balances need to be in place to prevent and deter people who are of no economic benefit entering - e.g. we don't need goat herders with no education or prospects of getting a job here. (Life is tough, live with it and make your own little bit of the Earth a better place!)

 

As for the lady not getting the possie - if she was born in Japan, then she is Japanese, regardless of her ancestory! (That's something the Japanese people need to comprehend and accept, otherwise they are destined to be left behind in Oceania/Asia.)

[Davo 1]

Nice posts everyone. There's good and bad sides to most to immigration whatever way you look at it. I would on the whole say I support immigration but of course it has to be controlled. In NZ immigration drives prosperity on one hand yet arguably limits opportunities for kiwis on the other.

 

I read recently that some Hollywood actors wife was buying 3 huge properties in Whangarei. She's also taking out NZ residency, meaning, essentially, that you can buy your way into the country. Every country has it's price, and at any rate, this new kiwi will no doubt dump a load of money into the economy. But is she, or her family ever going to really become a kiwi, and does that really matter anyway?

 

It certainly does when you're a refugee, no real estate agents are celebrating their arrival. You don't get a VIP pass when you turn up as a refugee. You're incarcarated and subject to security checks and investigation of your case. A process which is arguably a lot more humane in NZ than it is in Australia, for example. But then again, Australia faces a lot more pressure in terms of people trying to get in there for whatever the reason; half a million kiwis included!

 

Multiculturalism in itself raises a whole lot of issues and sometimes problems. However, when does being against multi-culturalism cross-over into racism, plain and simple? Multiculturalism is a good thing in my opinion and experience. Sure theres problems in the UK, but imagine how much less interesting London would be without the incredibe mixture of cultures. I found it awesome to live and work with people from all different cultures, and luckily I do here as well.

 

Is Japan racist? Generally I don't think it is in many ways, at least, overtly so. There's plenty of other ways in which it is blatently racist, although as the parents of a mixed child, I can't think of one experience of racism. Anyway I think I'm rambling. The government of Japan is clearly out-of-line for not doing its share with regards to the global refugee problem. Is it racism? I think it's beuracratic racism. Something is rotten and it stinks.

[69 5]

How many do you accept? As many as your country can resonably intergrate into your society.

 

>>> How many is that? Who decides on that? Do I get a say, being a taxpayer?

 

Do you put a limit on that number? Yes, of course.

 

>>> Oh, right. I see.

 

If so, why? as a hospital puts a limit on the number of patients it accepts so should a country put a limit on the number of refugees it accepts.

 

>>> You think that a hospital treating taxpayers in their own country is a comparable issue?

 

Where do they live? Anywhere you can.

 

>>> Under a bridge ok? How about the homeless in Japan to start off with?

 

What benefits are they entitled to? All the benifits you are.

 

>>> And why on earth should they be entitled to those benefits?

 

Who pays for those? The tax payer, which the refugees will be one of as soon as they get a job.

 

>>> So under your scheme, these refugees, they must get a job then? Or can they just come here, get benefits and do sod all *like more than a few have been known to do.

 

And for how long? Until they die.

 

>>> So even if they dont get a job and support themselves, they can have all the benefits as a taxpayer. Until they die. Is that what you are saying?

 

99% of the reasons given to reject refugees are bs. They are given by people like yourself who dont want to live next to someone who is different from themselves.

 

>>> That is just nonsense. Everyone I live near to is different to myself. The 99% of reasons idea you have above seems to refer to your own.

 

---

 

I dont pretend to know the full details of this Japan case, but in general I cheer them on with their strict view on this kind of issue. And for the record I am not racist. Far from it. A quick look at my family and the company I own and operate makes that very clear. Of course you might try to tell me different, but you know that does not really concern me.

[jared 0]

not much time now but..

 

Just to try and extract your main point,

 

You dont want to pay any money.

any others or is that it?

[69 5]

Not much time now either.

 

As you surely know it is not a simple issue. Why not read the comments, then you will get some of the main points.

[Thunderpants 0]

69, if it is immigration you are opposed to, then i think you have every right to feel that way.

(the ill heard truth is just that Japan need A LOT of immigrants)

Refugees however is a totally different issue.

A "real" refugee needs protection from it's home country, most often the government e.g North Korea, Iran, Burma or any other opressive regime.

Some of these people faces long prison terms or even death just for being in opposition to a regime.

We do not have the right to "choose" if we want to spend money on these people.

 

69, just answer me honestly if you think it is ok to send people back to certain death so you can save your tax money?

 

My country has seen a lot of refugees in the last 20 years, and it has caused problems in certain aereas, cultural, economical and criminal.

 

I still don't think we have a choice. It is our duty as humans to take care of each other.

 

ATB

TP

[69 5]

Well I will admit to my mistake - sorry.

 

I am not that aware of the refugee issue but I understand what you said in your post Thunderpants (thanks).

 

My post was particularly directed at immigration.

[Davo 1]

Fair enough, have a good read of the article in my original post.

[69 5]

I got sidetracked after my first post there. Will be more careful

 

I do feel very strongly on the issue of immigration however.