Tiger

[indosnm 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by fjef:
If you haven't used both OS's recently, please don't give your uniformed input about one or the other. There are loyalists in both camps that will never budge or compromise.

Have to agree with you there fjef!

I knew this would open the old and boring can of worms!

My HD was faulty, happens on PC and Macs.
I went into the Apple shop in Nagoya today and they were expecting me. They were really helpful and apologetic ( as they should have been). In the end they replaced my computer without me even asking. Stoked on the outcome.

What I have learned from this whole ordeal is to try and avoid dealing with the apple support and deal directly with the shops, as if I had sent my computer to apple I would be waiting upto 10 days to get it back.

[Ocean11 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Indosnm:

 Quote:

Originally posted by fjef:
If you haven't used both OS's recently, please don't give your uniformed input about one or the other. There are loyalists in both camps that will never budge or compromise.

Have to agree with you there fjef!

I knew this would open the old and boring can of worms!

Heheh, Mac people are so patient and long-suffering. The Mac people on here, clearly haven't given Windows an honest look, comparing like with like. Home use vs. home use, not single user vs. office network or whatever. You huff and puff about how boring the can of worms is while adding your own two bits worth. You call other people uninformed when you have know idea how informed or not they really are. And you pretend that there is polarization where there actually isn't any. I think Windows and Apple are both shoddy pieces of work that would benefit from a huge consumer-oriented overhaul. But it's quite possible to defend the usefulness of Windows, and its benefits relative to Apple, without going into the quasi-religious trances that afflict Mac fans.

I see Apple are recalling laptop batteries due to fire hazards. Anybody care to step up and say, fatuously, that Windows machines have the same problem? (Yes we know that, but Apple design and manufacturing is such high quality!)

[cal 6]

Interesting read about Microsoft here

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/21/technology/21nocera.html?

[Josh 0]

Hey, all you Mac haters out there. I got one thing to say.

MAC ROCKS and as for PC's

[giggsy 0]

Well that told us. I will have to go out and buy a Mac tomorrow now.

[Josh 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Ocean11:
And an OS that 'rocks' is by definition a pain in the arse. I'm annoyed when I have to use a Mac and it rocks at me (and fades in and out, and bulges, and twitches in that dynamic way it has.)

That's strange??
Maybe it fancied him!?
I wonder if you have really, I mean, really tried a new Mac?
They are wonderful.

[joshnii 2]

How much more fun life might be if things like computer operating systems got me so excited.

[Dims 0]

I use both regularly (yes, home user vs home user Ocean) and if all the programs/games I need ran on a Mac then that is all I would use. The design and look of the OSX is fantastic and it just seems simpler and easier to do the things I want to do quickly on a Mac. And there is the virus issue as well. I use a PC out of necessity, a Mac because I want to.

 

Ocean, you complain about people being uninformed while calling other people uninformed, yet in the same post you state "The Mac people on here, clearly haven't given Windows an honest look..." while being similarly uninformed about Mac peoples experience with Windows.

[mogski 0]

Finally someone who actually answered the question. A daily user of PC and Mac.

 

Well done Dims. You are the only qualified person so far to make a judgement in my opinion.

 

Ocean I do respect your opinion and enjoy your comments etc, but you are not a current daily user so your views being historical are not relevant. Take OSX for a test drive first then please do offer your comments.

 

As for Recall on batteries, you are talking about a hardware issue where as I thought the topic at hand was on the software???....

[Ocean11 0]

I occasionally troubleshoot my friend's OSX machine for her because she can't do it herself. And I (and her Windows-using mother!) both dislike the overly graphic heavy and 'interactive' interface.

 

But whatever... Oh yes, let's not mention the hardware, even though somebody else did. Members of the jury, you are to forget the batteries (even though it's a bit useless having a beautiful interface if the damn hardware thing keeps bursting into flames...)

[mfurmane 0]

Dell Inspiron (sp?) laptops...bought one in 2000...yeah, there was a recall on the battery b/c of risk of fire in 2002.

 

I use/buy PC's b/c of the familiarity...no other reason really.

[damian 0]

As a single at home user I have:

 

- an old OS9 Mac laptop that is crap.

- a windows desktop PC which, like all PC desktops, is a horrible machine, but it runs some specialist software that I need so I use it.

- a windows laptop that backs up the PC. It is equally dreadful.

- another windows laptop supplied by my employer which I use to access our network and thus work from home. I never turn it on.

- a 3.5 year old iMac that is my daily home computing device. It is an excellent machine with an excellent OS. I can fault it, but it takes some effort.

 

Since OSX was released 4 years ago, Windows has looked nothing short of a frigging joke, particularly the XP version. The only good thing that has come from Windows is Excel. It is an amazing tool that I prefer to use on a Windows machine rather than a Mac. Other than that, PCs are just an unwanted curse that one can't avoid.

[Ocean11 0]

Wasn't Excel actually just a rip-off of the Lotus 1-2-3 (or something) spreadsheet...?

[fjef 0]

I answered the question in one of my earlier posts but I was accused of being religious - again - I use both daily for business and home use. I support both at home and in my business. I support the integrated network for 32 offices in 26 countries - 90% of these have windows networks so its a lot of support. I run all critical stuff (web & email servers) on OS X and use the PC for troubleshooting and duplictaing user problems so I can solve them.

 

Battery recalls are common. Apple has had a previous battery overheating recall in 1997 and recently offered replacements for some iBook models because they did not last as long as they should have. Apple is the fourth computer vender to recall batteries this year. If you want the facts and not the hype, you can read about the battery recall here:

 

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/35999.html

 

Not the end of the world - and not one battery has caught fire 'in the wild'. 4 out of 28,000 have shorted out and overheated which COULD cause a fire - but hasn't.

 

One warning about Apple - customer service is spotty - sometimes great and sometimes terrible. It is predictably terrible at the Ginza Apple Store - I will not buy from them anymore.

 

Its better to order via the net or buy from Bic Camera etc. because they usually have extended guarantees on top of the vendor guarantee - but even then - do your homework on the net and don't expect sales people in the shops to know anything at all! Join a user group instead.

[indosnm 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by fjef:
One warning about Apple - customer service is spotty - sometimes great and sometimes terrible. It is predictably terrible at the Ginza Apple Store - I will not buy from them anymore.

Its better to order via the net or buy from Bic Camera etc. because they usually have extended guarantees on top of the vendor guarantee - but even then - do your homework on the net and don't expect sales people in the shops to know anything at all! Join a user group instead. [/QB]

Well I disagree with you on the better to order it on the apple online store.. Because when I ordersed my new iMac on the net ( which was customised only with extra memory and a wireless JIS keyboard and mouse) They were getting them done overseas! And sending them here!
So for me it was way quicker to go to the Apple shop and pick it up that day (customosed) than to wait an extra 2 weeks.

A good point about using the apple shop over BIC camera and other places is that if you are elegible you may be able to get the educational discount which is 7%.
Also if you do have a happening like I did then usually they will replace it straight away where other non apple shops will opt to send it to apple first to get it checked.

[fjef 0]

If you bought extra memory at the Apple Store, you paid 3 or 4 times the normal retail price - so even with the educational discount, you end up paying more. At most of the major electronics stores, you get points - usually valued at 10% of your purchase so you can buy memory or a printer etc...

[Josh 0]

Bottom line people. If you can use both, have both. Neither are better. Browny points on batteries or OS's are feeble. Users should know better. SUV PC or a LUX MAC?

[maoriboy 0]

For those people that are interested this makes a good read. Sorry its a bit long but I got it in a weekly email from the NY Times tech writer

 

 Quote:

Ground Rules for the Windows-Macintosh War

 

Last week, I wrote about some of the changes Microsoft has in store for the next version of Windows, which is slated for the end of 2006. Interestingly, very few of you responded to that column, probably because so much may change in the next 19 months.

 

But a few of you fired off diatribes about how I'm either a Microsoft "shill" or an Apple "apologist" (or maybe it was the other way around). It's not just me, either; it's a running sardonic joke among tech columnists that you can't even USE the word "Apple" or "Microsoft" without getting hate mail from somebody or other.

 

It's kind of amazing that various extremists could find the same column too pro-Microsoft AND too pro-Apple. But hey--that's the nature of ideological soldiers, whether they're in the conservative-liberal war, the evolutionist-creationist war or the Hummer-Prius war.

 

The Mac-Windows war, though, is especially pointless, protracted, and winnerless. There will always be people on each side who are every bit as rabid and un-convincible as those in any other religious war.

 

Still, I'd like to suggest, as a starting point of civility, a few pointers for participants in the O.S. war. Consider it one man's version of, "Can't we all just get along?"

 

1. Hate something for its failings, not for its success.

 

It's totally fine to criticize something because of its flaws--to hate Windows because it's bloated and cryptic, for example, or the iPod because it's too easily scratched. But condemning something just because it's the dominant product is just sour grapes. Arguments along the lines of "I hate Bill Gates because he's rich" or "I hate the iPod because everyone has one" add nothing to the dialogue.

 

2. No condemning something until you've tried it.

 

If everyone abided by this idea, about 95 percent of all the Windows-Macintosh diatribes would evaporate overnight. But here it is: If you haven't tried something, then you really have no basis to comment.

 

3. Execution matters.

 

I'm so tired of reading discussions like this: Person A: "I love Mac OS X Tiger! That Spotlight thing is so cool: press a keystroke, type a few letters, and get an instantaneous listing every file, folder and program containing that text."

 

Person B: "You pathetic loser! It's called hard-drive indexing, and Windows XP has had it from Day One." Of course, the truth is that Windows Indexing Service is to Spotlight as Thomas the Tank Engine is to a bullet train. In Indexing Service, you can't search with a single keystroke, the speed is nothing like Spotlight's, you can't search for metadata (115 kinds of secondary information, like music genre, Photoshop layer names, camera settings in digital photos, etc.), the index isn't updated in real time as you create or delete documents, and so on.

 

It goes the other way, too. "I love how Windows XP lets me delete or rename files right in the Open or Save dialog boxes."

 

"What's the big deal? On the Mac, we just switch to the desktop and delete or rename things there."

 

Sorry, but that's just not as good as being able to do it within the dialog boxes.

 

The bottom line: How well something works and how elegantly it's been built is also relevant to the "which is better" discussion.

 

4. Don't make grandiose purchasing plans by guessing on technology's future.

 

This pointer is directed exclusively at Mac-bashers, particularly the ones on the nation's boards of education.

 

If you decide to standardize on Windows across all schools, fine. But make sure you have legitimate reasons like economics or the need to run some Windows-only software suite.

 

"We want the kids to learn what they'll one day use in the business world," however, is NOT a good reason. If you think you know what anyone will be using in 2020 (when today's first graders will graduate from college), you must have a heck of a magical crystal ball.

 

Truth is, by 2020, no operating system will look anything like it does today. By 2020, we may well be using holography or tablets or glorified cellphones instead of computers. Claiming to know what company's operating system today's kids will be using when they graduate college, or how that software will work, is nonsense.

 

5. Consider that they may have a point.

 

Neither side's members should be allowed to cover their ears and sing "Blah blah blah!" at the top of their lungs when they hear an argument that could rock their worldview. As long as the points are factual, fair and substantive, you should consider them.

 

Remember: Apple and Microsoft routinely play O.S. leapfrog and regularly adopt each other's feature ideas; eventually, aficionados in both camps will enjoy similar enhancements to the computing experience. As we carry on the never-ending debate, try to generate more light and less heat. Only then can we discover what aspects of system software are truly valuable, and thereby usher them into existence for everyone to enjoy.

 

[zebedee 1]

Good read that, thanks!