js 0 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 ‘August 9 2004 JAPANESE SKI SITE TO BE PURCHASED BY AUSTRALIAN FIRM MFS Ltd., a Queensland-baseed diversified financial services group, announced that it has reached indicative terms to buy Harmony Resorts Niseko Pty Ltd., which owns the Niseko Hanazono ski field, its ski-lifting business, resort leisure facilities, and a fully-serviced and subdivided parcel of development land, with the opportunity to develop 8,000 beds at the base of the ski area. The ski site is located 120 kilometers (75 miles) from Sapporo on the Northern Island of Hokkaido. Last year, about 4,000 Australians skied at Hanazono. The number of skiers from Down Under is expected to more than double to 10,000 this coming winter season.’ http://www.reinet.or.jp/e/mjr/200409_2.htm (They also recently purchased the premium Aussie resorts of Falls Creek & Mt. Hotham, Victoria.) http://www.mfsgroup.com.au/index.cfm Unofficially speaking for Aussies, I gotta admit hating my fellow countrymen when they do this sort of rape ‘n pillaging just to bolster their shareholders earnings at the expense of beautiful areas e.g. ski resorts, beaches, bush setting, etc. I hazard to guess that most Aussie visitors to Niseko want the ‘traditional’ laidback atmosphere that a ‘mega resort’ can never emulate. Personally, at Niseko, the last place I’d want to stay is in a western style multi-storey hotel complex. Apparently rural Japan is going through hard times and such an investment would bring short-term and long-term employment, but what are the likely environmental and social costs? If the local governing authority prevented this development, the same number of people would still make the trek and the smaller operators would continue fulfilling their needs. We experienced a similar ‘improvement’ several years ago – in 1998 a group of us visited Steamboat and enjoyed its small town hospitality. Some years later we returned only to witness the construction of a mega complex within the resort. As a consequence, we won’t be going back – why bother when Vail, etc are easier to access and have the same mega-mart atmosphere? Do the owners or governing authorities honestly believe that putting more people into a resort will increase its popularity?! Correct me if I’m wrong here people, it seems one of the main threads throughout this rider forum is: trying to find those ‘hidden’ gem resorts, ‘hidden’ runs and powder stashes. Pumping more of the population into resorts like Steamboat and Niseko will only deter avid supporters of the sport from visiting. (Vote no confidence at the MFS shareholders meeting, sack the Committee, p*ss-off the CEO, sell the company and buy those new ski’s!!) Constructive comments and discussion welcomed. Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 It's all about the Bling $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Link to post Share on other sites
stepchild 0 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 they've got a long way to go before they even come close to the megaladon that is Intrawest. Those guys own a couple of resorts in North America (inc Whistler), i think 2 in europe, where they are currently expanding in other resorts, and a whole array of holiday destinations literally all over the globe. it is a huge, expanding empire and they show no sign of respite whatsoever. i hope plenty of smaller resorts are able to fend off their advances, it's all about the local hills retaining their character and not selling out. that's what makes visiting different areas so enjoyable. if they (intrawest) get their way every bloody ski resort in the world will look the same. Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 10,000 doesn't sound like a particularly large number. Better than numbers smaller than it anyway. (I'm feeling confused today). Link to post Share on other sites
powwwers 0 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 i hear ya subby, i hear ya! Quote: they`ve got a long way to go before... Quote: ...sure, but everything starts somewhere. i`m not on me soap box just yet, but tha jury is well an truly out. one thing i`ve been thinking about while we`re wating for tha season `proper` to kick off is:- What must all the peeps who have made the `early` visit here be thinking right now??? i mean, they would have been sold with a marketing campaign that included a segment on a prime-time travel show, and the endless preaching of how when the cold fronts cross tha j sea from siberia blah blah blah... i`m tippin a lot of `em wish they`d stayed at home. no doubt they`re now being told that this late start is a `freak`, and just to soften `em up a bit, they`re already probly been given a `discount` for next season, with even more dribble about how we couldn`t POSSIBLY have TWO late seasons in row... Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 BoC 10,000 people is a lot if they stay an average of a week, say. I would imagine the demographic they're really after is expats in tiger economies and older folk in Oz who've retired early. Both have plenty of dosh. Niseko Hirafu customers per a season, say 500,000 (can't be bothered to look it up). That's day visits, so 70,000 extra from the gaijin would be a mighty 14%. I think Japan comes bottom in Asia in TOEIC scores. If rich gaijin are going to come, Japanese people may at last have the same reason to learn English as many of their fellow Asians. With holidays in many places, you're chancing the weather. You can spend a week "heliboarding" in Alaska holed up in a shack playing cards if the weather doesn't cooperate. Lots of visitors to Florida this summer ended up fleeing from hurricanes. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 hey wiggles you are right about the weather. I wont go to niseko for my own reasons. I hope it takes off but I also hope it changes but not plastic resort color houseing like back home. adding some life to any japanese resort is a must. Link to post Share on other sites
js 0 Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 You’d be surprised how quickly a nice little resort can be turned into a mega priced freak show – take a place with potential, add some not-so-clever marketing, form a company, and voila, you’ve got lots of dosh to spread ‘round. It’s pretty obvious that the Bling value is the be-all-n-end-all for corporations, whose suited members have probably never felt snow or know the difference between ripstop nylon and goretex. Keep an eye out on the changes to Intrawest owned Winter Park and Panorama – we visited the former a coupla years back, although a bit rough around the edges and lacking a few of the unnecessary bells & whistles (that’s what made it special), it had damn good skiing. (The altitude) Being the cynic that I am, just gotta agree with Stepchild and Powwwers – local ‘villages’ are just too quick to sell out. BagOCrisps (Chips here in Oz) – do the maths. 10,000 new beds means about 10,000 additional people PER WEEK. And what about the likelihood of other companies doing the same thing 200 metres down the road? The floodgates open. Try finding an untouched powder stash at Niseko then. Mr Wiggles is pretty much on the mark – lotsa people from the SE Asian countries and Oceania, though it’ll be younger people not older who will be visiting. The younger ones have the disposable incomes, whilst the cashed up pensioners are more likely to visit the warmer climes. (I like the staunch attitude of Japanese not to use English in their country – why should they! Besides, I’ve had more problems communicating with Americans in the US than Japanese in Japan – heh, heh, heh.) Don’t know what you mean by adding ‘life’ to the resort though Fattwins – hope you don’t mean Vail or Whistler type ‘life’? The only sound I wanna hear when I ski is the trees, birds, wind and my heart thumping, NOT mobile phones, musak or irritating overbearing people in Armani ski suits! Have been to Niseko three times (a week each) and never had truly crap weather – just lack of sunshine, but hey, who cares when the powder is armpit deep and light-as! No doubt I’ll need to visit some of the other places – but Niseko is just so comfortable. (Rusutsu was good but seemed to lack the pow pow.) Much to ponder, eh? (Being a responsible shareholder is a good philosophy.) Hope yo’all have a great holiday and do miles of safe riding. Later. Link to post Share on other sites
Ski Beaver 0 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Quote: Originally posted by SubZero: [QB] You’d be surprised how quickly a nice little resort can be turned into a mega priced freak show – take a place with potential, add some not-so-clever marketing, form a company, and voila, you’ve got lots of dosh to spread ‘round. Define "not-so-clever" marketing. Any company is only going to embark on a clever marketing campaign, one that promotes the resort. Quote: It’s pretty obvious that the Bling value is the be-all-n-end-all for corporations, whose suited members have probably never felt snow or know the difference between ripstop nylon and goretex. Do you think the shareholders of BHP or Toyota have any idea how to drill a mine or to make a car? No! Similarly, the shareholders of a skiing conglomerate have no need to have ever felt snow. Shareholders (or as you call them 'suited members') rely on the board of directors and external consultants (read experts) to advise them on mining and car making or bringing it back to the present example - potential ski resorts that can be turned profitable. Yes it is all about the bling - so is life deal with it! Quote: BagOCrisps (Chips here in Oz) – do the maths. 10,000 new beds means about 10,000 additional people PER WEEK. And what about the likelihood of other companies doing the same thing 200 metres down the road? The floodgates open. Try finding an untouched powder stash at Niseko then. You are basing your propaganda on the premise that these beds are going to have a 100% occupancy rate from December to April. You do the maths, just because there are new beds there doesn't mean they will automatically be filled. Probably need some not-so-clever marketing campaign to fill them. Quote: Don’t know what you mean by adding ‘life’ to the resort though Fattwins – hope you don’t mean Vail or Whistler type ‘life’? The only sound I wanna hear when I ski is the trees, birds, wind and my heart thumping, NOT mobile phones, musak or irritating overbearing people in Armani ski suits! Whistler night life is unreal and would be right at the top of my list for going back there. It sounds like you would be annoyed just leaving your bed each day. Do us a favour and stay there. Quote: Have been to Niseko three times (a week each) and never had truly crap weather – just lack of sunshine, but hey, who cares when the powder is armpit deep and light-as! Hope to see you there in Feb 2005, I'll be the person dressed up in a suit, influenced by not-so-clever marketing campaigns, sleeping in 10,000 beds every night of the season. Having never touched snow before I hope you can show me around - I promise to turn off my phone, and not to act like i am invading your resort. later. Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I do have to say that getting some western money and ideas into the Japanese resort isn't a bad thing. One thing that I really find bad about Japan is there lack of architectual beauty. I'm not an expert at all about this but I do think I have an idea of what looks nice. Japanese buildings seem to be built very inwards looking with no thought of what the building looks like from the outside. Having been to a few of the big Intrawest resorts I do have to say that they do try to make the resort look pretty nice. And I certainly don't recall having to listen to annoying pop music while getting on the lift, riding the lift and skiing down the runs. And I really don't have an interest in hearing about resorts selling out. Here are couple resorts that may have sold out -W/B -Kicking Horse -Fernie -Mount Mackenzie -Red Mountain And I have to say with the exception of Red the "Selling Out" has done them an entire world of good and they kick ass now and will kick ass in the future. Red already kicks ass and will continue to kick ass. Link to post Share on other sites
nzlegend 1 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Quote: Originally posted by SubZero: We experienced a similar "improvement' several years ago – in 1998 a group of us visited Steamboat and enjoyed its small town hospitality. I am having dejavu, I went to Steamboat in 1998 with a group! You werent a ski patroller at Keystone in 1997/98 were you Subzero? Steamboat small town? I remember Steamboat being fairly well packed with chalets, apartments and hotels in 98, hate to imagine it now! Link to post Share on other sites
js 0 Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 Hello Thar SkiBeaver, Firstly, thanks for the Flame – I didn’t substantiate all that I had said because there really isn’t a need for a lengthy thesis on the subject and this is certainly not the place for such a litany. Suffice to say, we all have eyes and some of us have a substantial amount of years and experience behind us to know ‘the game’, the key players, and how the system operates. Similar to most of the members in this forum, I don’t have a vested interest in the snow business other than being a responsible rider who would like to see the pursuit continue far into the future – a sustainable one at that. So, if you believe life is all about bling, you are indeed a contemptible and worthless person. (That’s just an opinion from a complete stranger, so live with it!) In the hospitality industry, if you don’t have near 90% occupancy rates during the peak season/s then you are in severe troubles – research would’ve shown that 10,000 was an economic base. Don’t get me wrong, I like Whistler, but can also appreciate the cultural differences offered elsewhere. As far as nightclubbing goes, horses for courses, but if you want to create little copies of Whistler everywhere you go, why not just continue to go to Whistler and leave the remainder of the planet to the diehard riders? (Basically Dude, crap in you own backyard, not other peoples.) Beaver, regarding your last comment: ‘Having never touched snow before I hope you can show me around - I promise to turn off my phone, and not to act like I am invading your resort.’ No probs, though on second thoughts Mate, I wouldn’t want a wanker like you at one of ‘my’ resorts anyway. G'day Toque – gotta agree, some of the architecture in Japanese resorts is kinda unusual – probably the result of inheriting different ideas after WW2 whilst still attempting to retain some identity of themselves. Suppose my barrage on ‘resorts selling out’ is aimed at those resorts that have really piled on the infrastructure beyond its necessary capacity – admittedly a difficult thing to evaluate (subjective). Would really hate to see some of the smaller Japanese/Canadian/American resorts go that way regardless of the economies of scale. G'day Snowglider – no, not a ski patroller but talk about weird conversations – I remember talking to a Keystone Ski Patroller whilst at Steamboat in 1998!! (I remember because our group was initially contemplating Keystone as a second week after Steamboat, but somewhere along the line we were drawn inexplicably to Vail instead.) Twilight Zone sh*t no doubt! Have a great season all. Later. Link to post Share on other sites
A lawyer 0 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Buildings in generally look so bad here that it really must be that they just don't care what they look like that much...... Link to post Share on other sites
IIIII 2 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Sorry, but, if they are going to make the resort better - whats the problem??? )I've had a few beers, so I might well be missing the point here) Link to post Share on other sites
powwwers 0 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 good, betta, best... i think tha point is: "Will it be better just cos they`re makin it better, or say they`re gonna make it better?" if it aint broke, dont b fixin it i say! Link to post Share on other sites
guzzlers-baps 0 Posted December 25, 2004 Share Posted December 25, 2004 Did this company buy the place at bargain base price or spend a lot? With it being really popular and all, you'd have thought it not be cheap... Link to post Share on other sites
Dougy 0 Posted December 25, 2004 Share Posted December 25, 2004 Maybe they are just trying to even the score since Japanese corporations own large chunks of Queensland. Link to post Share on other sites
window-cleaner 0 Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 Is the point here them being Australian or just overseas? Link to post Share on other sites
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