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phat, you're right.

 

No lin, I've never tried skiing. Having looked at the groovy skis in the shop the other day, I confess to being a little tempted.

 

There are a number of reasons why I don't like skiing though, all of which I've listed before. But here we go again, for the last time.

 

- Skiers have until recently looked completely naff, and even now show tendencies to return to type.

- Where I come from, skiing has always been elitist and snobby. It seems that way to a large extent here too.

- These reasons have no doubt turned more people off winter sports than just me, and that's a shame.

- Now that skiing has several competitors, skiers and resorts are bearing it with remarkable bad grace on the whole. There's still very much the attitude that they're 'ski resorts'.

- Many skiers are dangerous, especially to boarders, while blaming their inevitable injuries completely unjustly on boarders. I've experienced this myself.

- Ski poles are just a big turnoff.

- Skiers make moguls which are a bloody nuisance.

- Skiers are more likely to molest children (Hold on!, no, that's not true!)

 

Now, some disclaimers for the weak-minded;

- I have nothing personal against skiers, especially the ones on this forum. But I do have something personal against skiers who put me at risk by skiing right across me or into me, as many tend to do, not having taken the time to study the snowboarder's 'line' as I have the skier's 'line'.

- Dislike for a sport doesn't imply dislike for its practitioners.

- There are some very bad-mannered snowboarders too, and I'd like to see the end of behaviour such as sitting around, walking with the board held crossways behind the back, entering powder when obviously incapable of riding it and so on.

- This a discussion board, and trying to be all PC, let's get along, and ecumenical about differences of opinion is pointless and boring, so I hope you'll forgive me if I refrain from that.

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Heyzuss H Christ!

 

funny post Ocean! I've got friends who both ski and board. It doesn't matter to me. I do both (but ski a lot more). I think all you said is tongue in cheek so pretty cool. I bet if any of us on this board met up, it woulnd't matter. It's all about having fun! You do seem to be a bit sarcastic. Is this the reason you were called out? Just curious.

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nice one ocean

 

you are right this is a discussion board so if possible, please clarify a few points for me....

 

1) Why do skiers look "naff"?

 

2) Isnt it a bit of a generalisation to say skiers and resorts are handling the whole thing with "bad grace". Aren't most resorts spending lots of wonga on park and pipes rails onemakes and so on, as a result of snowboarding?

 

3) Are there no dangerous snowboarders? Are they all considerate?

 

4) I agree that skiing has been an elitist sport in that there was a complete lack of tolerance for change and the new ideas snowboarding introduced. In fact the FIS is still far too strict with regards to mogul competition and the free skiing movement. But, aren't the few boarders who show a similar lack of tolerance for skiers guilty of the same elitism and snobbery?

 

5)Admittedly, moguls are difficult for boarders - but they are also difficult for skiers. Just because you can ski it doesn't mean you are fantastic at bumps. Skiers are not a malicious band of roaming mogul making machines, intent on causing havoc for snowboarders. Moguls are a part of any resort we all have to deal with.

 

Now being as I am weak minded I read the last bit carefully, and you may conclude I didn't read it carefully enough. I don't know but ultimately the most important thing is that we all get down the hill and try and avoid riderism....

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Belle, thank you. I'm very flattered.

 

talisker, don't you agree that ski fashions have been pretty horrible on the whole, and in many cases still are? The 'fag bags', the rainbow laugh patterns, the bunny ears...?

 

 Quote:
Isnt it a bit of a generalisation
No, I don't think it is. The places that are obliging are doing so very late in the day. Almost no places notice that some boarders are more interested in 'natural' riding than breaking their chins on icy park toys, and almost no resorts are doing anything to accomodate these people. Au contraire. There are still resorts that are skier only, still resorts that charge extra for snowboarders, still resorts with skier only sections, still resorts that don't try to limit moguls to say, half of the best runs, still resorts where people on skis threaten to take your ticket if you so much as step in the powder.

 

 Quote:
3) Are there no dangerous snowboarders? Are they all considerate?
1. No. 2. Yes.

C'mon, how old do you think I am?

 

 Quote:
But, aren't the few boarders who show a similar lack of tolerance for skiers guilty of the same elitism and snobbery?
I hope you wouldn't lump me in with them. I show great tolerance of skiers. I don't even rebuke them when they lie around with twisted knees after crashing into me - I imagine the pain is lesson enough. But to answer your challenge more directly, I'd have to say no. Skiing snobbery is so ingrained, it's effortless, and it really is a group thing. Any snowboarder who points out some of the more unfortunate aspects of skiing is not necessarily being snobbish or elitist, or intolerant for that matter.

 

 Quote:
Skiers are not a malicious band of roaming mogul making machines,
Just as dogs aren't a malicious band of roaming dog-turd making machines. I'm very fond of dogs, but they do have some antisocial habits that need to be curbed.

 

 Quote:
Moguls are a part of any resort we all have to deal with
Well, only because the resorts are 'ski resorts'. If they were 'snowboard resorts', maybe we wouldn't have to. A very simple point, I'm sure you'll agree, but nevertheless a point that reveals much about ingrained attitudes.

 

For all these reasons, I'd love to see what a snowboarder-only resort might be like. It would no doubt have its own problems, but it would be an interesting evolution in winter sports.

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Mr. 11's posts above are first class! I dont know crap about the topic, but from the point of view of 'telling it like he sees' it they are great.

 

Due to the fact that I am niether skier or boarder I think I can claim to have no emotional bias at all in terms of ski v's board, so I am safely objective when I say that Oceans comments seemed pretty fair to me, at least in as far as they were neither loaded with "I love boarding" nor "skiers suck man".

 

Just out of interest sake, what is bad about holding the board across the back with both arms?

 

In my opinion skiing has always been the preferred winter activity for the social elite. And when I used to ski I didn't like the try hard upper class attitude that came with it. I was young at the time, but I really enjoyed skiing (read: sliding down a mountain and going fast on the snow). However I didn't like 'skiers' very much.

 

If boarding is to skiing what surfing is to golf/tennis/polo then I like the sound of it.

 

(sorry if I offend, but if there is one thing that repulses me it is golf and tennis, along with most other 'male domain' mainstream popular sport. You can assume that I also dont like cricket).

 

{Admission: I really have no right to comment or to even have a real opinion on winter sports as I am a non-participant, I dont do either activity. This will change in a few weeks}.

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I agree with the fashion remark Ocean we have and are still coming up we Bad trashy fashions. I look at the ski race fashions and laugh its made for people with to much money and 18 different colors. Brands like Bogner cost as much as outfitting the average riding snowboarder will spend on everything.

 

But by far the worst clothing was the late 80's early 90's Neon crap that was FU>>>>>>ed.

 

I remember people in Japan 8 years ago dressing like animals or samurais what was with that.

 

Still we have those people in clubs sking around the whole mountain all looking the same. I would be board following one guy around all day just to improve my one turn.

 

In truth I switched to snow board clothing a long time ago the bargins are better and I like the relaxed look.

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Fattwins looks cool. I can attest to that. I believe I also saw him sliding backwards a ways.

 

deebee, holding your board tucked behind you means that you take up 150 cm or more of space than the 30 or so you might normally take up. The Kissmark Kids who read the magazines that show you the crek way to do everything with little 'maru/batsu' photos see that this rather twee pose has a maru against it for some reason and think they'd like to try it - usually on the crowded feed-in to the gondola, or as they walk down the long narrow track that other people are trying to slide down. You sometimes see 2 or 3 of them walking abreast with their boards out crossways, and people trying not to fall off the mountain getting round them. Truly moronic behaviour.

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As always wonderful in ya face, call it as ya see it posting by Ocean. Always a delight to read on an ohterwise eventless day here at work.

 

I have one point that I disagree with.

 

It would seem that Ocean you are pointing the finger at skiers for causing moguls. I think if you actually sat and watched arun where moguls began to form you would find that it is a mix of both. You see many people in this country do not see anything outside of a groomer. They slide the same as the perosn in front, whether they are skiers of boarders. Low and behold come afternoon session the bumps are chin deep and the no one goes there any more.

 

Snowboarders shift a lot more snow than skiers in turning. Simple physics of greater surface area. Snowboarders can also turn arcs as sharp as skis.

 

I think it incorrect to blame the mogul effect 100% on skiers.

 

As for the people on skis threatening to take your ticket when you step into the powder, if this comment is meant as anal patrol comment, then yes I agree. If it is meant that they are only after snowboarders(I don't think so but...) then this is incorrect. I am a skier. I have been threatened with losing my pass.

 

I think we all need to think outside of Japan a little more. Yeah sure Japan is still backward in many areas when it comes to change, but look at most resorts throughout the world. Boarder, skier, it don't matter. We are all sliders alike.

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We try to provide value where we can ;\)

 

mogski, I think you're right to a certain extent on the mogul thing, but wrong overall. I've seen powder that's been ridden exhaustively and exclusively by boarders, and mogul type things do form. But because the cutting action of the board isn't nearly so concentrated as that of skis, the moguls are broader, flatter, more widely spaced, and easier to get over. While I haven't studied this, I suspect they may also shift. While boarders can carve tightly, generally they don't tend to. But when I said that a boarder-only resort might have its own problems, this is one thing I had in mind.

 

I don't mean to suggest that ski patrol are necessarily biased against snowboarders, but since you mention it, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility now. But until SKI resorts take the radical step of introducing SNOWBOARD patrols, they'll always primarily be SKI resorts, with all that that implies. I understand that they have board patrols in other countries, so it's not a physical impossibility or anything.

 

 Quote:
Boarder, skier, it don't matter. We are all sliders alike.

Well... I'm saying that in many cases it does matter. And I think I've documented plenty of instances where it does matter. To be sure, I fervently wish that it didn't, and when I ride alongside skiers, I certainly share that sentiment...
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Skis, I presume, are used by patrol because they're faster, more versatial and a damn sight nicer to stand around in. Never thought about finding bias there!

 

Telemarks, definitely prejudice regarding patrol catching one on those.

 

"You're out of bounds, hand me your ticket"

 

"but, but...my heels aren't attatched"

 

"Whooaaa... kakoii, etc. etc. (much bowing and scraping)"

 

"Well, must be off..."

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 Quote:
Skis, I presume, are used by patrol because they're faster, more versatial and a damn sight nicer to stand around in. Never thought about finding bias there!
Wrong on all counts! They use skis because they're the SKI patrol. What, you think they tried boards and discovered that really skis are faster, more etc.?

Boards are fine to stand around on when you get used to it, but they're also great for riding around on. Also they're good for chasing snowboarders through powder, something that ski patrol are not that good at if the stories of boarders are to be believed.

Funny how everybody shows their bias and flawed assumptions as soon as they open their mouths...

Imagine if you will, how many black policemen you might expect to find on the force if 40-60% of the population were black...
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I don't remember the last time I saw a jacket that said "SKI PATROL" I thought they had reverted to just "PATROL"

 

Perhaps a more fitting name would be "GAIJIN CATCHER" or "GAIJIN BUSTER" etc. \:D

 

As for Patrol on boards or Tele's I saw a patrol guy up in Niseko on Tele's when talisker and freinds were giving me and badmig's the 5 star tour.

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Question of semantics? Interesting point of view that. Black, white? Question of semantics mate.

 

Well, it's actually more a question of substance and attitude, that's why snowboard patrols are being introduced at good resorts in other countries (and Japan too? http://www.so-net.ne.jp/jsba/ANTAI/40.html). But hey, there's nothing to stop you keeping on with your comfortable old views.

 

Some of the stories I've heard involving ski patrol actually concur with you on the point of speed. One bloke doing E&E got overtaken by a patroller doing spectacular rolls over and over down the hill...

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Nice thread going - I think the introduction of patrol who are snowboarders is an excellent idea. Boarders and skiers both have their positives and negatives when riding. But, more importantly, each individual rider must respect his/her level and pay attention, just like when driving a car or riding a bike. Just because were on a mountain, even backcountry, doesnt mean there isnt any traffic. Each person must take responsibility for his/her actions. If more people LOOKED before turning, or like Ocean pointed out, watched the line of the person in front of you, mishaps wouldnt happen so much. Practice Safe Riding!!!

 

Just curious Ocean - you said youve been hit a few times by skiers. Were they Japanese or gaijin?

 

As far as skier only resorts go, yes, that is elitist and ridiculous. But, could it be that some of those locations where the lifts drop you off at the top dont have room for boarders to sit down and start a road block like they often do?

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YP,

 

Only been hit by Japanese skiers, and been hit by several of each level (and they always come off a lot worse, whichever direction they come from). I got clipped by a beginner snowboarder once, for the first time, at the end of last season. All the foreign skiers I've seen have looked more than competent.

 

YP, do you board too?

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