mogski 0 Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Quote: But, could it be that some of those locations where the lifts drop you off at the top dont have room for boarders to sit down and start a road block like they often do?[/QB] I think this is where a huge crime is being commited by resorts! In this country where snowboarding is hip and top of the fashion chain at the mo for resorts to ignore this trend and oppurtunity for cash is stupid. There should be no area on a resort that is ski or boarder specific. All are paying therefore all should get the same rights of use. Link to post Share on other sites
wakaran 1 Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 But... all also have the choice of actually paying for the ticket to use the resort or not. They can see before they buy - if they disagree, don't buy. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 I agree with wakaran on that one. I won't be going to 'Malnuma' anytime soon, and couldn't really care less. If parts of Shiga Kogen want to keep boarders out, fine. I have read that these places profit handsomely precisely by banning boarders. Where the losses are being made and the folly practised is in not offering the same sort of deal to snowboarders. We could all be reeely cool and cliquey together with our flatter, more stylish moguls and hip rags. Link to post Share on other sites
mogski 0 Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Have yet to come across a resort here in Japan that lists which runs are open to side sliders or straight sliders. In fact in my experience skiing with my boarding buddy it has usually been that we find out right as we are about to line up to get on the lift. Case in hand; top run at Kandatsu two seasons ago. They seemed to wake up last season and change their policy. If you can show me a resort that has this "closed to boarders" warning anywhere near where the tickets etc are sold or where you can see before you purchase I would be happy to change my story. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 http://www.npd.co.jp/malnuma/gelande/index.html for just one example. Note the careful itemization on the right of the table for where snowboarders can go. Also note the license system which is of course paid for by those snowboarders daft enough to accept it. Want to become an ekisupaato so you can ride where any beginner skier can freely go? There are many other such examples online if you have the time to look. It's not like ghosts or UFOs or something where believing is seeing... Link to post Share on other sites
mogski 0 Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 From a Gunma resort that claims to have super fine snow like Hokkaido!? I guess one cannot expect much more. My question was though however, is this info available at the ticket window or somewhere else on the resort? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Move the goalposts, why don't you? If a very explicit table posted on a website isn't public and advance notice, I don't know what is. But OK, to meet your overly stringent evidentiary requirements, Nozawa has lots of route maps up showing which places are skier only. Boarders ignore this information, and ignore the skiers who sometimes yell at them. This may well change this year, if it hasn't already ... 10 years after the sport got going.... Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Ocean, Thats what I thought. You drive here dont you? I have a motorcycle and my mates have cars, regardless of what you drive the Japanese drivers in this country DO NOT LOOK when pulling out or any other time. I see it daily when on my bike - something I learned really quick here that on a bike you are 1000% defensive driving and have to constantly pay much more attention than a car just cause of the simple fact that if you get hit, youre Fu@$@d!!! Same thing on the slopes - the average Japanese does not pay as much attention as the average gajin. Thats a huge generalization, I agree, but make it on experience. Ocean, not yet but will start this year as I wanna be able to do both. Ive never limited myself to one sport - like surfing and bodyboarding. Mogski, I agree. Best thing is to open up all mountains to boarders. Theres just not a lot of logical thinking going around. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 lin, I hope that answers your question. YP, you're right there. When I cycled to work, I used to think you could make an interesting video game involving somebody cycling along avoiding the awesome array of random hazards encountered on Japanese roads. I'm sure you could put together a representative list yourself. Got any programming skills? And now for one of my favourite 'gaijinron'; Japanese people don't have 'a corner of the eye'. I don't mean physically - I mean their peripheral vision is underdeveloped through lack of use. This is attributable to the general reliance on beeps and other 'safety' helpers encountered everywhere. Even backing trucks pipe out a warning (Mrs 11 swears they say 'Facku shimasu'). You can walk up behind somebody on a street quietly here and they won't sense your presence until you step on their heel (not that I would do that last bit). Walk with that sort of obliviousness on some English streets and you're live bait. Like you say, you see the same thing on the ski slopes. Link to post Share on other sites
TeleSkier 0 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Had a little adventure last season dealing with not allowing snowboarding all over the mountain. Went to this place called Yokoteyama which is part of the Shiga Kogen complex. My buddy was with me and he was boarding or so he though. They were nice enough to allow boarding on one lift - problem though it had about 50 ft of vertical. It was absolutely pathetic. So he had to rent skis and got set up with a sweet gaijin package straight out of 1983. Needless to say I will no longer visit this place (it was totally substandard compared to Haluba Valley) or any part of Shiga Kogen no longer. We did get to see an amazing phenomenon - about 200+ people all in the same ski wear marching around in ski boots in perfect order to the lifts. We couldn't believe it. Anybody else ever seen these types of organized lessons??? Link to post Share on other sites
kobet 0 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 That's what lessons are about isn't it? From what I've heard Shiga Kogen is a particular fave for the organised mass lessons too. Just how many people do they teach at the same time anyways? Link to post Share on other sites
danz 0 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 ha... ocean11...that is soooo true.. on the narrow approach to my parking lot, I can drive my car withing inches of the salaryman leisurly strolling the middle of the street...usually takes a slight tap of the horn or high beam to get them to notice me... danz Link to post Share on other sites
mogski 0 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Quote: Originally posted by Ocean11: Move the goalposts, why don't you? If a very explicit table posted on a website isn't public and advance notice, I don't know what is. But OK, to meet your overly stringent evidentiary requirements, Nozawa has lots of route maps up showing which places are skier only. Boarders ignore this information, and ignore the skiers who sometimes yell at them. This may well change this year, if it hasn't already ... 10 years after the sport got going.... No moving the goal post really, just thinking that if you are on a road trip or make a spur of the moment trip the only thing you have to rely on for this info is the placards etc. at a mountain. Look at Teleskier's example. Sure in this day and age of internet, I, like many others I guess, would check up prior to leaving, but many places don't actually have sufficient web sites. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Ocean personal Question Were you the guy about 3 seasons or 2 seasons past asking about Info on where to live in the Nagano area. Just curious. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Fattwins, that was NoFakie I'll think you'll find. Weirdest group behaviour I ever saw was at Nozawa. They had maybe 30 skiers dressed the same, lined up in 3s, all SCREAMING THEIR HEADS OFF!! FOR 10 MINUTES!!!! First it was rebel yells, then it was slogans. 30 people screaming at once on a snowy slope is an appalling racket, and very disturbing and distracting to other customers. But that's skiing in Japan for you. I don't expect they needed a license to scream... Link to post Share on other sites
Digger 0 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Seems to me that Oceans' gripe against skiers is based largely on his conception of the lack of cool displayed in the majority of ski wear. Although I would personally rather be seen on the slopes with a rubber chicken stuck up my tradesmans' than sporting two planks on my feet. I am much more in the camp of a day-glo ojii-chan carving through those annoying moguls, than some 'cool boarder' who spent twice as much on his wear than his board and spends his day posing around the ski-lodge, or sat on his ass in the middle of the run. The whole patrol thing overlooks the simple fact that the kind of people drawn to that profession, as of those drawn to fields such as sporting referees/umpires or traffic policing, are usually officious and tiring sorts. I've seen plenty of patrol on boards up here, doesn't seem to make them any less bothersome though. And, after spending many seasons following two-plankers through the powder, I defy anyone to claim that a competent powder skier can't track boarders everywhere they go and reach some places (involving negative gradients) much more easily than boarders can. If you want to stay on the punter slopes with the inconsiderate skiers/boarders and the flocking ski schools you shouldn't be surprised when than get in your way or crash into you. But, if you give thanks that those folks are paying the money to keep the resorts open, and smile to yourself as they pile onto the crowded slopes while you head-off into your out-of-bounds powder stashes, in my humble opinion, the skier/boarder divide will stop seeming so relevant. Link to post Share on other sites
talisker 0 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 bah humbug you are a legend! Nuff said..... Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Quote: Seems to me that Oceans' gripe against skiers is based largely on his conception of the lack of cool displayed in the majority of ski wear. In which case, you're missing all the other points. I only spent money on clothes last season because I didn't have any and because I couldn't spend it on boots in this land of small feet. We're not talking about competent powder skiers either, we're talking about Japanese ski patrol. But I'm sure that patrollers riding anything are just as you say. Where are you seeing patrollers on boards anyway? Christ, I could do with some snow soon though. It's got all warm again dammit. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Was that a yes or a no Link to post Share on other sites
lin 0 Posted October 3, 2002 Author Share Posted October 3, 2002 Wow, look what I started!! Do I get a vote for Thread of the Week? Link to post Share on other sites
enderzero 0 Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Here here. My take on Snowboard Patrol: There are plenty of boarder patrollers runnin around the hills of the Cascades. But in order to be a boarder patrol you also have to be a competent skier. Why is that? You must be on skis to carry the sled. It is just not possible on a snowboard, and this is the main duty of the patrol; to carry injured people safely down the hill. But most of the time the patrollers are boarding or skiing around, setting up fences or checking for exposed stumps or rocks. As for patrollers chasing those goin out of bounds or pulling tickets, I have never ever had a problem. I have never met a dick head patroller. Maybe they are way more easy goin over here, but as long as you are relatively safe and competent you are pretty much allowed to go wherever you want. Don't expect a rescue if you break your leg though. You make it sound like it is a real problem to hit some back country pow in Japan. That's lame. It sounds like Japanese patrollers are more like police and our patrollers are more like paramedics and groundskeepers. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 There's some pix of snowboarders moving a sled here; http://www.so-net.ne.jp/jsba/ANTAI/30.html I don't see why it should necessarily be impossible for a good boarder... The patrol at most resorts I've been to haven't been a nuisance - in fact, I've hardly ever seen them. But at Cortina, the patrol and the lift guys worked together to be a real pain the arse, making what could be a great resort into the sort of place I'll think very carefully about visiting ever again. Just exactly like police... Link to post Share on other sites
brit-gob 9 Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 Ocean - I seriously think you should pick up the skis and them pole things this year, with an open mind, as an experiment. You know you want to really..... Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 brit-gob, I wouldn't mind doing that actually. But what are my chances of finding boots that fit... Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 Probably a lot higher than for boarding! Link to post Share on other sites
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