The cost of owning a house

[snowdude 44]

Quit cheap but depends where it is.

The land that we have just put a deposit down on costs a little more than double that amd that is in Kobuchisawa but then it is more than doublethe size of what you are looking at.

 

But with the land we got there is nothing else to pay as water, sewage is all there and the land is already to build on.

We bought ours through Hokuto ward office so it has all been prepared ready for building on.

You may find that with the cheaper plots that water is not tthere or sewage is not there, which will easily add between 500,000- 1+ million extra on that price.

Also if the land is too soft or sloping, etc it will cost more money to either change the soil, add soil or add support posts to the soil to strengthen it suitable for building a house on which can add another 1 million.

 

All these things need to be checked before you buy.

 

We have been through this and found some plots that appear cheap actually are not so cheap once you have to add everything else to it.

 

There is also the agents fees, etc to add.

 

 

oYour local house building companies will check everything for you and tell you exactly what is required and how much it will cost as well as whether they recommend using that land orr not.

 

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

Is 1.5 million yen cheap for a plot of land 180sqm?

 

Sounds pretty good to me!

 

That's less than 3 man-yen per tsubo. Must be in a very rural area? I'd get a bigger plot in that case!

[pie-eater 207]

How did it go dumb stick?

[DumbStick 13]

It was very interesting.

 

Really nice showroom house. Came back to our old place and suddenly found it to be... well, nowhere near as nice! I suppose you'd expect that.

 

The guys were really helpful. The showroom house was really good actually, though we had a few questions as to possible changes. They just said tell us what you want and we'll redesign it to fit to your needs. Nice. So I had a play around with the plan and sent it to them yesterday. So looking forward to seeing if my ideas are possible.

 

So my head's full of this now, really spoilt and totally stoked to get it going.

[NoFakie 45]

Check out as many houses and designs as possible before you start. Everyone says you have to build three houses to get it right. I don't know if it's easier or harder to get it right in Japan. On the one hand, the prevailing standard of existing houses is so low that its easy to beat it and have people going "suteki! suteki!" the second they walk in. On the other, there are so few examples of really good houses, especially rental ones, that you end up approaching the problem with limited reference points.

 

Either way, having a house built is a fantastic journey. It's a great thing to experience.

 

As a general recommendation, if you're at the bookstore, take a look at a magazine called Chilchinbito. It promotes smaller regional builders who build modern, airy houses out of natural materials, like unstained timber, solid wood flooring, and keisoudo/shikui, generally using Japanese post-and-beam. I think they're better than what the big housemakers do. The magazine doesn't have a Net presence, but here's a Nagano-based builder they promote just as an example of the general philosophy. I would guess you're looking at 60 man a tsubo ballpark, so not so expensive in relative terms for Japan.

http://www.dikok.jp/index.php#plan

[snowdude 44]

When I get back home later ill give you the run down pn some of the companies we have looked at and the plus and minis points of each which may or may not be helpful to you.

We are narrowing the list down npw and will decide by the end of this month.

We have been to many places so we have an idea about the houses.

[mumbojumbo 0]

Are there big differences really?

 

We had a look at a few and they all looked quite nice. I'm no building expert but they all seemed similar kind of things, just plans and shapes different. What sort of things would you paritcularly look out for?

[DumbStick 13]

Yes I would be interested to know that.

 

Can't say I can see a great difference other than cosmetic stuff you know how they look and the floor layout etc.

[NoFakie 45]

Its the most expensive thing you're ever going to buy, so I would recommend doing many many times the research ippy would do when buying a snowboard.

 

My impression of show houses in Japan is that they are there to create a little fantasy that the company draws you into. All of the ones we saw on housing parks were 70 tsubo or larger. All very impressive and lovely, but hardly anyone builds a house that big. The builder I linked to refers to the same thing in describing their more realistic model house.

ダイコクのモデルハウスは、有名な建築家による高価なものでも、奇抜で豪華絢爛なものでもありません。

 

As for differences between houses, some barely noticeable things can have a big difference. Japan can be brutally hot for many months, so natural cooling would be a major concern for me near sea level. The less air conditioning, or heating, you need, the nicer your house will feel. A draughtproof house can be heated fairly nicely with radiant heat from underfloor (good), a woodstove (better, but requires effort), or the sun through the windows (best, though weather dependent), but cooling is all about moving air through an air con which feels kind of crappy (obvious relief notwithstanding) and lots of people, esp. women, dislike. Optimizing passive cooling needs site specific design, not just plonking a generic box on your site and hoping for the best.

 

The same goes for views if you've got them. There are many plots in Hakuba with views of the mountains but no windows facing in that direction. A standard house design will never have a living room with north-west facing bay window. Standard logic says that will only catch the setting sun in summer and overheat, something that won't happen round here.

[DumbStick 13]

Got it. Though you're not saying that they will deceive with a show house are you?

 

Actually the show house we saw was pretty much the size we would want. And it wasn't full of extra gear to pretty it up. I asked the question specifically and the guy said that what you see here is what you get in the price package. Including a heated floor for the main LDK.

 

About the views and plots, yes one of the thing I have changed on my "adjusted plan" is move some windows around with a plot we have in mind, in mind. No point in having windows facing the next door neighbour if at all possible! Actually my plan had a lot of changes. Haven't heard back yet so it will be fun to see what they come up with and say if my ideas are ok or not.

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

Try looking inside closets, especially the ceilings of closets, and other "hidden" places like that. Are they properly finished, or treated as "out of sight, out of mind"? You can get an idea of the workmanship at least.

 

Also, keep in mind that square houses are stronger against earthquakes than houses with complicated footprints.

[DumbStick 13]

I did take a good look at fittings.

All seemed nicely made, to my eyes at least.

Understood about the quake thing.

 

The other thing about the house we saw was.... one week later, the people who had bought it are moving in. So this is a house that someone will be using, not just a showcase.

[Metabo Oyaji 71]

That's good. "Open houses" are better than model houses in that way, being real houses to live in.

 

Also good to check what kuchikomi there is about your builder, see what other customers have thought of them.

I suppose you have probably done that, though.

[snowdude 44]

Actually there are some differences, which make it really difficult to decide:

To start there are different construction methods

2x4 wood frame

2x6 wood frame

Wood panel method

Steel frame

2x4 is the common standard, which most companies use

2x6 uses the same construction, but the wood is thicker making it stronger and warmer as the amount of insulation is thicker, better choice for cold areas.

Panel, uses 2x4 wood with panels as the main weight and strength barer rather than the frame as in the 2x4 and 2x6 method.

Which is stronger is debatable, although all methods must pass all the same earthquake strength tests in order to get approval.

Steel frame, this is a no brainer, as for strength it is far superior to the wood, but the amount of shaking during a quake tends to be greater with a steel frame as there is no give.

 

WINDOWS

Go for the plastic framed windows or wood if you go for Sweden house.

Most offer the plastic framed (Jushi sashi) as standard, as they are much warmer.

All are double glazed, and some have gas inside, which makes it I think 20% warmer than just the double glazing, good if you live in a cold area.

We are going for this type of window as we will be living in Kobuchizawa which is very cold.

Don’t go for aluminum they offer very little insulation.

One of the biggest areas of heat loss is through the windows、and roof.

The double glazed gas filled windows also help keep the heat out in summer.

 

OUTSIDE PANELING

If like me you hate lines running down the walls between the joins in the panels then you will need to check with your company that you plan to build with if they can build without leaving lines, some can such as WITH EARTH some can’t such as SIKISUI HOUSE/ HEIM

 

FLEXIBILTY

Some builders only allow you to use their own equipment, kitchens, baths etc, as standard unless you pay more. If like us you prefer to have a choice without having to pay more, check that they offer this option.

 

SOLAR

A lot of companies offer free solar (and it really is free)

Most houses now use e lot of electric and as all houses now must have a 24hr air circulation system, solar is a big factor to consider ( something that we are planning to have)

Some companies offer free solar some don’t better to check.

If you don’t use all that you produce you can sell it back to the electricity companies.

I would not recommend buying solar as it will take between 7-15 years before you break even and make a profit depending on what size solar you add.

Who knows if it still works after 10 years, if it is free then no matter!

 

INSULATION

All modern houses are of course insulated, but the degree varies.

So far the warmest house that we have found is Ichijo komten, one model of their house uses 2 layers of insultion, inside 140 mm followed by an outside layer of 50 mm, divided by a thin wood panel.

This house is so warm that during the day even though it was freezing cold out here the weekend it was warm in the house.

They just have a floor heating system running but no heaters running.

 

Although it is very very warm, we will not go with them because we don’t like their styling or the fact that we must have their original kitchen, bath, etc.

Also the double insulation is a new concept that has only been around 5 years and as far as I know only they have this. I also didn’t like the way the outside panel was fixed to the inside, not very strong looking, something I brought up with them.

 

Most of the companies now not only insulate the walls but of course the floors and roof too, if they don’t do not bother going with them as heat escapes from the room too and cold air rises from the floor.

 

OUTSIDE WALLS (gaiheki)

You have a choice of Nurekabe (painted walls) or Siding (paneling)

Paneling is better in general as it is maintenance free, the painted walls will crack and require painting every 10 years or so to keep the house in top condition.

A lot go for tile, brick paneling on the bottom and painted walls on top, this tends to be cheaper and less surface area to have to look after.

This is of course preference more than anything.

We haven’t decided which way we will go as of yet!

 

VENTILATION

Most of the houses have a 24 hr ventilation system which helps keep the house drier and changes cold outside air into warm air and vise versa, making it easier to maintain a more regular temperature environment in the house.

Good point is as I said the house doesn’t suffer from much condensation, bad point it tends to be a little less warm than a house which has less ventilation.

This is again more personal choice and maybe try to find a company that is somewhere in the middle to get the most benefit.

 

PRICE

There are some cheaper building companies advertising cheap houses.

Well these are actually fine and offer a decent standard of house, but what they tend to lack is after care service with just the standard min of 10 years free maintenance and checks, no solar and a lower grade of insulation, windows etc.

So in order to get the same standard as the more expensive companies you need to upgrade many things, which in the end will work out more and you still will not have the same after care quality.

 

QUALITY

Check the quality of the workmanship, and if you can visit their factory, most of the big decent places will happily let you come to their factory where the houses are constructed, that is the ones that are built at the factory then constructed on site.

You can also go in one of their model houses on an earthquake simulator, to see just how well the house stands up to a major shake, also good fun to to experience the different types of earthquakes.

Check the houses that you go to thouroughly for any flaws, out of line, poorly made joints etc.

If their show house has anything wrong then a good chance the built house will have too.

 

WRITE UPS

Also check write-ups to see what people say about the house builder that you are looking to go with.

 

PRICE AND PLAN

When ever you ask a builder to make a plan to your specifications and price, they will at first come up with a plan that is anything from 1 - 3 million yen over your stated budget.

They will appologise for not getting with in your budget as they were not sure to start with exactly what you wanted.

It is a ploy to try and advise you that the plan they have come up with is recommended and worth paying a little more for.

DON'T accept it, stick to your budget and get them to make the plan accordingly, they should be more than happy to meet your price and plan.

And you have the right to change it as you wish until it is as you like.

Only after you have signed a contract will it be difficult to change the plan without paying money to do so.

 

If I have time tomorrow ill give you a break down on the pros and cons of the companies we visited to

[NoFakie 45]

Here is a "housing park" in Nagano, a collection of show houses from big name builders. I think its pretty typical of what the ordinary person will go to see. All of the houses on it are very big, far bigger than most folks who go will ever afford. They usually have big double height spaces, oversized rooms, windows in fancy (read: expensive) arrangements, loads of built-ins, little spaces as home theaters, etc. etc. etc.

 

http://sbchp.jp/nag-c/index.php

 

Here's a photo of a model house from Sekisui House.

 

 

The ironic one is going to be anyone who could afford that isn't going to build a Sekisui House. That kind of person would get an architect in.

 

Some smaller companies build more realistically sized model houses. I know the log house companies do, a company called Bess that make Japonesque log houses (actually quite attractive) does, and I think Tama Home do on their own sites. Some builders just take you round other houses they've built, which is probably the most educational.

[DumbStick 13]

well go and see a few more places.

 

got a good feeling from this one though, the house was nice the guy was helpful and wasn't pushy at all. I liked that. Still of course have tons of questions but happy to give them a good chance.

 

All fun, though I suspect you can quickly get lost in information and get to the point when you start not being able to see the wood, whatever that saying is.

[NoFakie 45]

By the common understanding, I don't think 2 by 4 is a "frame" house. 2 by 4 are used as studs that are sandwiched by plywood which acts as bracing to make structural, i.e, load bearing walls. Remove such walls and the house falls down because there is no frame. 2 by 6 is the same with thicker walls, I'm guessing on the outside only where the bigger gap allows for more wool type insulation.

 

A frame house, or "post and beam", Japanese "zairai kouzou" is the traditional way to build in Japan and uses a structural frame that supports the upstairs and the roof. So long and the posts (verts) and beams (horizontals) remain, every wall can be removed, although many walls will contain diagonal bracing for earthquake protection. Post and beam structures will collapse if they become sufficiently off square, so such bracing is very important. In the Kobe earthquake, 2 by 4 houses generally fared better, or at least that's what everyone said. There seems to have been great improvements in reinforcing post and beam since then though.

 

Walls in 2*4 are structural, so it can limit window size and placement in certain places because you're cutting a hole in the structure. However during the design stage interior walls can be shifted with a certain degree of freedom. You can have a corridor that is 1 meter wide, 1.2m wide, 1.4m wide etc. etc.In a post and beam house, the posts are generally located on a grid (or "module") and cannot be moved. For that reason, in Japanese post and beam houses corridors, toilets, closets etc. are generally 90cm wide, the width of one tatami. Room size is some multiple of this because the sensible thing is to put the walls where the posts have to be. Since 90cm is quite narrow, there is a bit of a shift to using "meter module", basically a one meter grid producing one meter wide corridors and toilets. If you want that 1.2m wide corridor though, in a post and beam structure you're going to be struggling. I'm sure most people in Japan a while will have seen a house with a wacky upright in the middle of a room or by a stud wall that has been built afterwards. That's post and beam for you, right there. I think the typical post in Japanese post and beam is 4 sun, which is about 12cm square. That's pretty close to the 6 inches of 2 by 6, because that's the size before the lumber is dried.

 

If you want the ultimate in design freedom, build with a steel frame. Its expensive but you can have car showroom sized windows and divide up your space exactly as you like. None of the walls will need to support any weight. Among the bigger names, Toyota Home build steel frame houses. On a small plot in the city where you can only fit a tiny house, I'd imagine steel frame is definitely the best. The smaller your house, the more important it is to divide the space up optimally.

 

For the big house builders, I would say the more specific your needs, the less the reason to go with them. A decent Hokkaido builder should be way more clued up about the climate and corresponding challenges there than some big company centered in Tokyo that sells 95% of its houses on Honshu. While the big companies have economies of scale and factories to prefab in (computer controlled machines in climate controlled factories are good!), a lot of the cost advantages are pissed away with tv adverts, huge sales divisions, and model houses here there and everywhere. Its their customers who have to pay for it all.

[DumbStick 13]

Wow you guys really are in depth on this.

 

Very interesting, thanks.

[tokabochi 9]

Here is a "housing park" in Nagano, a collection of show houses from big name builders. I think its pretty typical of what the ordinary person will go to see. All of the houses on it are very big, far bigger than most folks who go will ever afford. They usually have big double height spaces, oversized rooms, windows in fancy (read: expensive) arrangements, loads of built-ins, little spaces as home theaters, etc. etc. etc.

 

http://sbchp.jp/nag-c/index.php

 

Here's a photo of a model house from Sekisui House.

 

 

The ironic one is going to be anyone who could afford that isn't going to build a Sekisui House. That kind of person would get an architect in.

 

Some smaller companies build more realistically sized model houses. I know the log house companies do, a company called Bess that make Japonesque log houses (actually quite attractive) does, and I think Tama Home do on their own sites. Some builders just take you round other houses they've built, which is probably the most educational.

 

Looks nice that!

 

[pie-eater 207]

You guys done lots of homework!

[DumbStick 13]

Here's something I find curious.

 

Balconies.

 

Now, a nicely placed balcony, facing no-one else and big enough for some chairs etc, sounds like a good idea.

 

Tons of newish houses seem to have them. But most of them seem unused, and basically a waste of space. Possibly because they are facing a busy road and hardly the place to be sitting out on a balcony. And lots seem to kind of "go in" and take up space that could be surely more better used inside the house as part of the room.

 

What you think about balconies?

[klingon 10]

My place has a useless balcony that I wish wasn't there.

 

It takes up space that I would much much prefer to have as part of the room.

[NoFakie 45]

Just guessing, but the average house is going to be designed for a family and a Japanese family will want somewhere to hang out washing and dry out futons. The average Japanese family has the washing machine on every single day. It seems common for folks to wash bath towels after one use.

 

Airing out bedding is something British people never do, but the temp and humidity are much higher in Japan. It makes for perfect conditions for house dust mite, which loves bedding. I think that's an allergy you can develop through exposure, so limiting it is probably a good idea.

[RobBright 35]

We have a nice wide balcony, about a metre or so in depth, that Boy In Japan likes playing on when it's warm.

 

Bedding, laundry and other things go out there as well on sunny days.

[Karnidge 2]

Good points.

 

Still, I am also the proud 'owner' of a useless balcony off my main living area. Delightful electric poles/lines and an apartment building directly opposte, busy noisy road below. Nice!