surfarthur 22 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 On that note, how popular is mountain biking in Japan, and are there any ski resorts that cater to mountain bikers in the summer (ie using the lifts to access downhill mountain bike trails)? Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 On that note, how popular is mountain biking in Japan, and are there any ski resorts that cater to mountain bikers in the summer (ie using the lifts to access downhill mountain bike trails)? Nowhere near popular enough for many resorts to make the effort to support it. Not in these parts anyway. In this whole region, just Muikamachi Hakkai-san for a limited time. And only the fact that it's a popular ropeway for scenery helps it there. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Getting bigger each summer in the Niseko Resort Area Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 As can be seen in this thread and others, "Niseko Resort Area" ( ) is in no way representative of what most Japanese ski resorts are all about and their circumstances. It might as well not be part of Japan, and certainly is a very bad place to give as an example the Japan scene as a whole. I think it's pretty safe to say that a fair few Niseko-heads are absolutely oblivious to that as well. (And no, I'm not accusing anyone on here in particular of such ignorance). Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Yeti (or is it Fujiten...I can't remember which) has mountain bike trails accessed by 1 lift. Link to post Share on other sites
@tokyo 14 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Getting bigger each summer in the Niseko Resort Area Sounds like a politicians answer that! About how big? 3 people compared with 2 the previous year and 1 the year before would quality for that comment. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Well if anyone can actually detail some of the serious infrastructure ugrades and investments that have been made in other resorts I would be most appreciative. Although a few resorts have been mentioned nothing about what has or is being planned has been detailed. Still whether or not you need one or two or three hands to count the number of resorts that are investing money it doesn't change the fact that they are still only an incredible minority of the resorts in the country. It's an industry in crisis by any measure. And I can assure you Ski those of us who were part of what went on in Niseko over the last decade were well aware that it was not like the rest of Japan. The only rural area of Japan where there was jobs growth, the only place in Japan outside of a few small areas of Tokyo that had rising property values (and they rose at a rate seen nowhere else in Japan). We were all well aware of how unique what was going there was and still is. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Oh, I never for one moment doubted you, Go Native. Heaven forbid! I am well aware of how highly intelligent and all-aware you are, as well as being a supreme businessman with a big inheritence on the way. Lots of other peasanty-type people though are alas nowhere near as knowledgeable as your good self. I was meaning them. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Go fcuck yourself Ski. Link to post Share on other sites
ProbablyaCrazyPerson 2 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Doesn't Naeba do it muika? Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I don't think so, ProbablyACrazyPerson. I am pretty sure that the 2 Prince Gondolas do not move out of winter season (correct me if I'm wrong anyone!), apart from Dragondola which is open a bit in summer (?) and definitely this time of year for koyo. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 On that note, how popular is mountain biking in Japan, and are there any ski resorts that cater to mountain bikers in the summer (ie using the lifts to access downhill mountain bike trails)? The big one is Fujimi Panorama, but there are a few. You can see gopro footage etc. on Youtube. Nozawa does a bit and so do the Hakuba resorts. Among other issues, the typical large number of landowners problem at Japanese ski resorts makes it difficult to cut lots of trails. Japanese people are renown for "kakko kara hairu" (splashing out for all the right gear before starting), which doesn't help with mtb because good bikes are very expensive. When ridden on the mountain, the parts on them also tend to break and need replacing. Its not a cheap hobby. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Getting bigger each summer in the Niseko Resort Area Sounds like a politicians answer that! About how big? 3 people compared with 2 the previous year and 1 the year before would quality for that comment. You should head up and check it out. Last summer I was there they had some pretty big events that had plenty of contestants and lots of spectators. I'm not into it myself but seemed like they were getting a good thing going. I believe this summer they have been running the Ace lift running for mountain bikes in conjunction with one of the foreign owned cycle companies in town. I think a 4hr pass on the lift is going for Y4,500. The downhill track looks pretty good and has 600m of vertical. Link to post Share on other sites
hellyer 216 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 $ 27 million for Kiroro is a steal. One strategy that hasn't been explored is a group of individuals / consortium buying a smaller ski resort and operating as a private club. If you consider that the buy in price for a ski-in, ski-out property is approx. $ 500,000 then getting 100 people to invest in a resort to the tune of $1 million that caters only to them and their guests and includes a property would leave more than enough money for operation, maintenance and upgrading. Sounds good, who do I make the cheque out to Mike? Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 I reckon there'd be some serious ongoing costs though snowjunky Still I'm pretty sure the Aussie company who originally bought out Hanazono only paid something like $2 million! Then after doing pretty much nothing for 7 or so years they sold it on to the Hong Kong guy for over $20 million!! I wouldn't mind that sort of return on investment! Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Citibank didn't make any money on the Higashiyama bit though, did they? Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 As can be seen in this thread and others, "Niseko Resort Area" ( ) ... I know I'm in a very small minority but you either play in the Niseko Resort Area or Niseko United or the individual ski areas of Annupuri, Niseko Village, Hirafu or Hanazono. If you ski in Niseko then watch out for the traffic. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Getting bigger each summer in the Niseko Resort Area Sounds like a politicians answer that! About how big? 3 people compared with 2 the previous year and 1 the year before would quality for that comment. Big enough to run the lift at Hirafu, cut trails, and host competitions. Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan 178 Posted October 10, 2012 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted October 10, 2012 Sorry folks, but this ain't an invitation to post you links and cryptic hints, so please don't. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 $ 27 million for Kiroro is a steal. One strategy that hasn't been explored is a group of individuals / consortium buying a smaller ski resort and operating as a private club. If you consider that the buy in price for a ski-in, ski-out property is approx. $ 500,000 then getting 100 people to invest in a resort to the tune of $1 million that caters only to them and their guests and includes a property would leave more than enough money for operation, maintenance and upgrading. Sounds good, who do I make the cheque out to Mike? I reckon there'd be some serious ongoing costs though snowjunky Starting pot of - $100 million Purchase price of resort (Kiroro for example) = $27 million Cost of building 100 slopeside units = approx $25 million (100 units valued at $500,000 each but made for $250,000 each. Someone can jump in and give a better guestimate) Leaves you with an operating budget of $48 million Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Pow 52 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Sorry folks, but this ain't an invitation to post you links and cryptic hints, so please don't. Thank you. If you have another way of showing people mtn biking on Hirafu please link. Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan 178 Posted October 10, 2012 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted October 10, 2012 That was a general comment I made MikePow, after dealing with a few things in here that only I know about - yes, including your post in which you even commented it would probably be taken down. I'm sorry but not prepared to get into a discussion on this right now. Let's please leave it at that. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites
Chriselle 158 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 On that note, how popular is mountain biking in Japan, and are there any ski resorts that cater to mountain bikers in the summer (ie using the lifts to access downhill mountain bike trails)? The big one is Fujimi Panorama, but there are a few. You can see gopro footage etc. on Youtube. Nozawa does a bit and so do the Hakuba resorts. Among other issues, the typical large number of landowners problem at Japanese ski resorts makes it difficult to cut lots of trails. Japanese people are renown for "kakko kara hairu" (splashing out for all the right gear before starting), which doesn't help with mtb because good bikes are very expensive. When ridden on the mountain, the parts on them also tend to break and need replacing. Its not a cheap hobby. Hey, that's cool... I'll have to check that out as Fujimi is relatively close. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Citibank didn't make any money on the Higashiyama bit though, did they? From memory Citibank got in at the height of the boom and had to get out just after the GFC due to financial problems in the company. Certainly they got the timing all wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 On that note, how popular is mountain biking in Japan, and are there any ski resorts that cater to mountain bikers in the summer (ie using the lifts to access downhill mountain bike trails)? The big one is Fujimi Panorama, but there are a few. You can see gopro footage etc. on Youtube. Nozawa does a bit and so do the Hakuba resorts. Among other issues, the typical large number of landowners problem at Japanese ski resorts makes it difficult to cut lots of trails. Japanese people are renown for "kakko kara hairu" (splashing out for all the right gear before starting), which doesn't help with mtb because good bikes are very expensive. When ridden on the mountain, the parts on them also tend to break and need replacing. Its not a cheap hobby. Hey, that's cool... I'll have to check that out as Fujimi is relatively close. I've heard that Fujimi is pretty good. Yeti or Fujiten (whichever it is) wasn't that great......good laugh and nice to escape the end of summer heat last year but there were only a couple of trails. But they did offer grass skiing and mountain boarding and there were a good few people out doing that (not ski season busy of course) Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts