montoya 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Sobering article on the winter-sports industry in Japan: http://sg.biz.yahoo.com/030216/1/37t8e.html Most eye-opening part is that an exec at Salomon-Taylor believes over half the resorts in Japan are in fact bankrupt. -montoya Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Interesting and sad stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
zwelgen 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I think its true but take a look at lots of resorts in Japan - they suck!! Shitty lame-o slopes, and just lame in general. For example I can get some free passes for resorts but prefer to pay to go to Nozawa to get good riding. A lot of these resorts dont deserve to exist, they wouldnt survive overseas so why should they be propped up here? Link to post Share on other sites
gooooooooal 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Agreed on that, I was just about to write the same thing. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 50% of Japanese resorts are bankrupt.... sounds like the remainder of the economy, including the government. I think the last paragraph is quite correct, however this applies not just to Chinese visitors: "Many Chinese will come to Japan ....... but they will not accept the system of minshukus," he said, referring to the family-run hostels which operate around the country, where visitors are served breakfast at the crack of dawn and dinner early in the evening. Japanese resorts must introduce "apres ski" and lose their regimented atmosphere if they are to stand a chance of surviving...." My limited observations to date have noticed that no effort has gone into designing/planning for the future. Everything was built for the bubble - either a) opulant with no substance or fast and cheap - designed to make a quick buck with no regard for servicing the holiday maker. Neither model capitalises on the natural snow resource that Japan has. My opinion holds that resorts need to stop spending money on appearance and put some money into substance, ie using the vast frozen resources to actually provide what the majority of the market demands*. It is all wrapping paper and no content. Look at Arai. Sheer opulance on the slopes, yet there are only two lifts that are actually usueful for a day of sking/boarding. Not the kind of place you want to spend thousansds of dollars for you annual international ski trip. On the other extreme, some 'resorts' have the great runs and terrain, but they have tin-shed facilities at the base and are serviced by a mud hut town. Hakuba 47/Goryu are examples of this. This is ok for the locals but will not bring in international cash, nor will an opulant resort with very limited lift facilities. * an obvious flaw here. I doubt that the Japanese snow industry thought that market demand would ever need to be anything other than domestic in origin. Now that international consumer demand is required to keep the boat floating, they are stuffed. Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by db: serviced by a mud hut town. I think there are enough flaws in the japanese ski industry up for discussion without resorting to inaccurate racist eurocentric stereotyping. you could have made your point much more eloquently by pointing out the lack of non-Japanese facilities in many major resort towns, and the fact that your personal needs weren't met. The 'town ski resort' style in japan obviously has a lot to do with the capital/consolidation problem they have, with the ski resort serving the local economy at grass roots (hence the 'mud hut' facilities. It's unlikely that, without large growth in the economy, any big operaters will really invest much more in the industry. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 "racist eurocentric stereotype". Not at all. Nothing more than a casual statement based on observation and also the words used by some of the residents in these towns, both foreign and Japanese. You know as well as I do that many structures are made from "mud" using wood fibres and straw to lend textural rigidity. As a semi-relevant side note, it is quite common to see modern internal cladding and wallpaper that is designed to look like actual mud and straw. This modern attempt to give the appearance of popular authentic techniques allows me to use terms like "mud hut" with reasonable confidence that I am not being racist. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 montoya, what led you to this article? Do you often go through Yahoo Singapore's Financial section, and if so, why? Given that some people apparently have been drawn to Japan from the US by the appeal of the snow here (as advertised by this website) it seems especially amazing that Japan's industry has been so blind to the possibilities of international status. Why limit the range of the new appeal to Korea and China - or do they think visitors from these 'confucian' societies will obey the rules more? I have to agree with db, complete bigot that he is, that Japanese resort facilities are laughably crap. As are a great many other buildings and public facilities. Call me a racist for saying so if you will... Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by Ocean11: I have to agree with db, complete bigot that he is, that Japanese resort facilities are laughably crap. As are a great many other buildings and public facilities. Call me a racist for saying so if you will... Now why would I do that? My comment was on the derogatory use of the word 'mud hut'. The term has, in the past, been used as a demeaning way to describe wattle and daub structures and imply inferior culture (mud generally seen as base/dirty). In your case db, I think you were aiming at a bit of sensationalism by using that word, not trying to be 'technically accurate'. Still, having read enough of your work, I'm sure no offence was intended. Link to post Share on other sites
frannyo 2 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Quote: having read enough of your work I love that, "work"! Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 miteyak, I see. But Japanese resort culture is inferior, as evidenced by its backwardness, its decline, and its poor infrastructure. I thought that was the point of the original article. To call it 'tin shack' and 'mud-hut' doesn't seem to be excessively rude. (And living in a mud-hut myself in a very cold area of Japan, I can attest to their complete unsuitability for the job and can only wonder why the Japanese have put up with it for so long. Ditto dull ski.) I think in trying to appeal to China and Korea, where I assume there is an even less developed winter sports culture (krek me if I'm wrong), Japan will not feel much pressure to make improvements. Link to post Share on other sites
montoya 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Author Share Posted February 17, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by Ocean11: montoya, what led you to this article? Do you often go through Yahoo Singapore's Financial section, and if so, why? Hi Ocean11, Not really. I found it on this site, which I use once a day or so. Very convenient. http://www.newsonjapan.com/ Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 OOh, that does look good, thanks. Better than having to put up with all those opinionated people on JapanToday.com... Link to post Share on other sites
rajeem 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I was surprised to see that our fab forum here is about 100 times more active than the Japan Today one. Wow. Link to post Share on other sites
danz 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 "Belliard believes around half of Japan's 700 ski resorts are in reality bankrupt, but they choose instead to keep their business ticking over -- usually only at the weekends -- because under Japanese law they would have to dismantle their equipment and replant the slopes with forest at their own expense if they shut up shop completely." well that seems like a good explanation of why so many of those pathetic resorts still run... how much do you think it would cost to do all that?? that's hard-core! danz Link to post Share on other sites
js 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 2c worth .... Take a look at Niseko (again!) - Niseko Hirafu, Niseko Annapuri, Niseko Hig... Three separate infrustructures, lift passes, etc - equates to big costs. A 'full mtn pass' is available, but the question that begs to be asked: WHY?!! One ticket should do all three areas. The old 'shogun' philosophies should be given the flick - combine the damn areas, streamline the workings, get rid of the numerous flat/uphill spots and start running it as a professional business. Whether they like it or not, international visitors are the jam in their bread and butter business .... then again, maybe they'd prefer to sink and retain some misguided pride?!! NOT RACIST, JUST GREATLY ANNOYED! (Gee, that feels better.......) SZ. Link to post Share on other sites
veronica 2 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Exactly how long can they continue though - and who's paying? Local taxpayers? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I wonder what they mean by 'usually only at the weekends'. I've never heard of places that are only open at the weekend, and if by that they mean that's the only time they get any customers, then why not say so? I find that many articles about Japan have these unaccountable inaccuracies strewn about. Or does anybody know of a resort that closes on weekdays? Even Wada Toge (RIP) flew the flag on weekdays. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 While I'm in a bit of a ranting mood here, it can also be said that Monsieur Belliard's company Salomon probably isn't helping to get every segment to the mountain by selling boots that stop at size 29. Just like all the other equipment manufacturers who stand to lose out if the Japanese market dries up. Link to post Share on other sites
mogski 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Do you think that if we all pulled those annoying one yen coins we have lying around the house that we could get enough money to purchase a faling resort and make it the hip-no music-professional patrol-BC okay and properly monitered-rope off regions for an obvious reason-place to be? Link to post Share on other sites
Glen Falting 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Just a thought, but it may not be such a bad thing for all those not-so-good, bad and indifferent resorts to stay open. For those of us who can generally only get up to the snow on the week-ends, imagine how crowded the remaining resorts would be if there was a signifficant reduction in the number of choices. Ok, so they wouldn't last ten minutes in a normal, market regulated economy, but every person who goes the crappy resorts, is one less person at the decent resorts. Link to post Share on other sites
montoya 0 Posted February 18, 2003 Author Share Posted February 18, 2003 Just a thought, do most resorts lease land from the govt or do they own the land outright?? Regarding mogski's post about buying a place with spare change, well my vote would be for ...Kagura (since I'm in Tokyo). Get some new hi-speed lifts in there, run more buses from Yuzawa, open its back-country fully and prep it for nightas - that would be sweet. Link to post Share on other sites
rach 1 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Kagura is one of the Kokudos fave resorts, they won't be selling that for a while you can be sure Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 I'd like to go skiing in Japan, but I am trapped in Walled Lake, Michigan. What are Japanese ski resorts going to do about that, then? Link to post Share on other sites
Markie 0 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 My suggestion for Japan resorts is simply to make it less difficult for foreigners outside Japan to make bookings. I had an extremely difficult time trying to book Rusutsu last year even though I made enquiries and was ready to commit as early as September. Furthermore, they only gave me 5 days/4 nights in the end, when I wanted a week. Link to post Share on other sites
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