Quantas........Grounded!

[HelperElfMissy 42]

To say unions are not needed in any country is rather worrying. Companies in most countries are mandated to make as maximize profit for share holders, and I'd be surprised if it's any different in Australia.

To assume blind faith that all corporations would not take advantage of the lack of unions in order to maximize profits is so completely blind, just jaw dropping really.

Maybe I am completely naive, but as a small business owner we employ 60+ people, and we are never looking for an opportunity to rip off our employee's and make them work for a pitance.

It is counter productive to good business. However we have had numerous employee's back up the car and load it full of stock; rifle through staff lockers and fill thier own pockets and clean out the medicine cabinet on a regular basis...

 

Due to the legislation governing fair work pay and conditions for Australian employee's there is already protection. All that is needed is ONE group to re-examine the conditions/pay rates and index them to keep pace with inflation and changes in societal norms. (like increased safety requirements etc) There is no need to have multiple militant bodies costing employers, workers and governments huge dollars. It could be done more efficiently.

 

I do applaud the work that early Unions did to improve conditions for the working man. It was necessary. I like to think we are a little more enlightened today.

[surfarthur 22]

I would like to believe that too MB, but sadly the reality is that many employers, from small business owners to multinational corporations would love to pay their employees next to nothing for working an 80 hour week. We do need the unions, we certainly can't trust the government to get it right. However, the unions could definitely do with having their wings clipped at the moment. They have too much power over employers at the moment and that needs to change. However every worker should continue to have the right to representation. Not everyone is good at negotiating fair pay and terms of employment for themselves. In fact, i believe that most people are pretty bad at it. Sure, I do not have your experience of being a business owner, and while I sympathise with you it terms of the cost of meeting the current employment regulations, high labour costs and difficulties dealing with negligent and criminal acts by your employees, that does not change the fact that all employees should be entitled to representation, or the fact that many business owners and multinational companies do not care enough about their workforce to look after them appropriately. Balance is what is needed, not an end to the unions. That would spell disaster for the average worker in Australia.

[mina2 6]

60+ people? That sounds like a fairly large small business there Mamabear!

[Jynxx 4]

I don´t know what people are going to get if there are no independent Unions. Independent - meaning not a company (employer) formed Union. Japam used to do this, so the workers stood up and formed their own " Second Union"

Even if there is an Union , example, I am talking about Australia. It does not necesary help you. Senior Union members who are employed at that company wants to keep their jobs, too. There might be politics and deals that "low level workers" don´t get told.

I once worked at one of the big department store as a casual. That was more than 7 years ago btw. At the end of the day, they clock off the work hours and then want us to do the till (cash register) and the books... that actually takes at least an extra 15 min. You calculate that in a year, and they are ripping us off about 50 hrs. Unpaid work.

I raised this up - I didn´t get any more work from them. Yes, I paid my Union fees.

[hellyer 216]

Could somebody please translate

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Translation:

Jynxx was getting ripped off by his large corporate employer. Raised it with his Union - to whom he paid his dues - and was not only offered no help, but was penalised by reduced hours.

 

Common story unfortunately.

I also expereinced issues with a charitable organisation (pretty close to government job) - no assistance whatsoever.

I simply resigned and moved on after my life crashed around me (and I mean completely imploded). Another employee turned to legal help, and after years of fighting, left the country with her life in tatters.

Our Unions did not give a toss. We would have been better off with a Government provided Employer/Employees arbitration service.

Only thing I have seen Unions get into in my personal expereince has been stuff they can make political mileage on.

IF they were there to stand alongside an individual employee experiencing unfair treatment at work instead of shutting down building sites to get more money for already well paid small portions of contractors I might be more in favour.

 

I suppose if my personal expereince had been more favourable I would see the benefit. But it hasnt.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

MB all you said, I support. There is no need for any Union to be millitant, if anyone is thieving then I am also for prosecution but that isn't representative of what Unions do. Yes they would represent their members in any industrial action suit against them but then murderers and rapists are also entitled to representation and a sturdy defence. I agree a lot with Surfarthur, Unions do need to have to be clipped, but to get rid of them would be hugely counter productive

[HelperElfMissy 42]

I think we are talking about the same real outcomes Tubby, just packaging it up in a different name.

 

For me "Union" as it is in Australian in 2011, stands for militant body that does not improve life for members, employers or the community.

On the contrary, my brother actually left his Union and became an independent contractor because their actions in his industry (in his positions favour) was completely unreasonable in his opinion, and meant that he was verging on losing his house because he was not getting paid.

 

Your 'clipping the wings of the Unions' is my 'providing employee protection through arbitration and a support office'. We likely want exactly the same thing.

[surfarthur 22]

I am flying Qantas in 2 weeks time for work. Lets hope that the experience is a good one. I guess the one thing I can count on is that my flight won't be disrupted by industrial disputes.

[banno 0]

Unions take them or leave them.... I worked in a senior management position for a multi national / international transport company and the unions had the company by the balls......it was absolutely pathetic, they held the company over a barrel with there pants around there ankles if you know what I mean. One particular bloke I caught red handed pilfering I saw it with my own two eyes, so I dismissed on the spot and within 30 minutes over 100 drivers were on the grass, but did they know what the were actually disputing? NO the TWU twisted the situation and lied to their members faces. Over a 100 drivers sat on the grass for 3 days no with no pay until the video footage of the theft was accidentally leaked to a couple of drivers ( I don't know who would have done that) they then saw the truth with there own two eyes ...There was a vote of no confidence in the union delegates and organisers and then the union had the audacity to threaten anyone who revoked membership would lose there seniority in the chain of work given to drivers on seniority....so please don't tell me that unions are there for their members, the unions are there for there own well being, the members are only there to pay there wages of the union organisers and keep them in employment because 90% of employers wouldn't employ ex organisers they're only career path is into politics and with the Australian Labour Party.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

That isn't a union, thats a Mafioso cartel. They aren't running the way they should, I have no truck with getting rid of them and cleaning them up BUT getting rid of Unions is not the right move. The workforce have to stand together for the good of each other, a balance has to be made so that neither management nor the workforce hold too much sway over each other....a swing to either side is not in the best interests of all involved. This sounds like the UK in the 70's, right now the Unions presently have very little power due to their predecessor's past indiscretions. Australia seems quite behind the times in this and its only a matter of time until these cartels are clipped

[SKI 15]

The one that does seem to always cause a fuss being BA of course. Have they settled that squabble at last?

[Go Native 70]

One of the problems in Aus is that a huge percentage of our media is owned by only a couple of media moguls, one being Murdoch. As we all know Murdoch is about as right wing as they come and so the way unions are often portrayed in the media here is hardly impartial. Very hard to get a balanced view of any disputes going on.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

oh... I am not sure about that GN. There has been a heap of Qantas bashing going on in the media. Not a great deal of Union bashing.

Media is just after it story, and whichever is the jucier - truthful or not - is gonna be portrayed. I think it is juicer and more scandalous to paint Qantas and AJ as the bad guys.

 

Had lunch today with a girlfriend who has found a bit of TV celebrity recently, her male tv compadre is gay but the media wont stop painting them as involved with each other. My friend is happily married with a couple of kids and the most decent set of morals about that (not to mention besotted with her husband) - but they keep at it. Apparently one of the mags to hit the stands today has a big gossip piece about it. Totally fabricated.

 

Anyone who believes what the media spoon feeds them is either very naive or a touch delusional.

[Alexander L 80]

BA are OK. THey warn people when they'll strike.

[Alexander L 80]

Plus they have larger sized unifoms for larger babes. Unlike those who insist on wearing small sizes.

[griller 9]

Oh that sounds very familiar. Showing yourself up again there "AlexL"

[Go Native 70]

oh... I am not sure about that GN. There has been a heap of Qantas bashing going on in the media. Not a great deal of Union bashing.

Media is just after it story, and whichever is the jucier - truthful or not - is gonna be portrayed. I think it is juicer and more scandalous to paint Qantas and AJ as the bad guys.

 

70% of Australian newspapers are owned by Murdoch. They are unapollogetically conservative, campaign orientated newspapers that support right wing agendas. Part of this has been a concerted campaign against unions. I agree in not believing much of what you read in newspapers (especially Murdoch papers) but when so much of our media is dominated by one organisation that has a very clear conservative agenda it of course sways public opinion and distorts reality. Don't think anyone could argue that we don't need more diverse views expressed in our media in Australia.

[kokodoko 67]

Qantas pilots asscociation have taken court action against the fair work australia decision.

 

This is gonna get ugly. I wont be flying qantas any time soon.