Mick Rich 78 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Ok, it's time for a rant! I'm guessing that one of the main reasons that foreigners ski or ride in Japan is the quality of the deep, fluffy powder. That's certainly one of the reasons I chose to live and work here. & by the same token, if that powder happens to be out-of-bounds or at least the other side of the ropes, then I'm also guessing that many of us will want to lay down those first tracks. We're all adults (I think) and know the risks of going off-piste, whether it be injury or loss of your pass. So what's the point of this post? Well it never ceases to amaze me how many times I see stupid stuff on the hill! For example, people ducking under a rope right next to the big, red, "Keep Out" signs. These are often placed near the lift huts to stop people riding back down the sweet lines they've just seen from the chairlift. I'm not saying don't ride down the lift lines but isn't it common sense to access them 20-30 metres further down, hopefully out of sight of the lifties or if not, then at least not doing it right under their noses. Similarly, why do people hike along the top of ridges in full view of everyone when they could hike or traverse around the backside and then just pop over the top? In both cases, you’d be far less likely to attract the unwanted attentions of ski patrol and would hopefully be able to get some repeat runs in. I understand that some people might just be visiting a resort for a short time and want to get the most out of their trip but this stuff just winds up the mountain staff and gives foreigners a bad name. Ok, I'm done. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 You're right of course. Some people just don't give a shit and do whatever they like. Usually numbskulls as well. Kind of expected I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites
Schneebored 0 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I have to admit I was a little ignorant to mountain courtesy/common sense and safety before I did seasons in Europe. Now I am obviously amazing and get it 100% right all of the time But you are right Mick Rick, some people just don't take the time to stop and think about what they are about to do. You hope they learn a lesson one day...not wishing anything bad on them. Link to post Share on other sites
Mick Rich 78 Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: Schneebored Now I am obviously amazing and get it 100% right all of the time Yeah, me too! Link to post Share on other sites
panhead_pete 27 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The lifties in Austria smiled and waved at me happily when I ducked ropes there, right at the hut. They laughed out loud when I didn't duck low enough and my back pack caught the rope and stopped me by flipping me on my ass Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The Japanese though really need to understand that skiing has changed a little in the last 30 years. The introduction of boarding and new designs for skis has seen the sport go beyond the groomers. Few just want to do big GS turns or moguls anymore, we want to get into the trees and actually enjoy the amazing powder this country has to offer. I don't condone ducking ropes and I don't do it myself but I am based in Niseko which has one of the most liberal off-piste policies of any Japanese ski resort (any wonder it's become so popular? ). The resorts need to start realising that people want to ski off-piste and they need to actually manage access. You have ridiculous policies up here at some resorts that have signs everywhere saying 'do not enter' but turn a blind eye to anyone entering there. Rusutsu is like that. The problem I have with this is that you really have no idea if it is really dangerous or not. At least in Niseko you know if there's a rope there's generally a really good reason. Thankfully there's not that many. Link to post Share on other sites
Mick Rich 78 Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Some good points there GN! Obviously Furano (where I'm based) is some way behind Niseko in terms of development and attitudes but then it is more famous for lavender than snow! Link to post Share on other sites
rider69 18 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Sometimes hiking up a ridge is much safer than traversing a backside though. The ropes need to come down if the area is safe. Putting up ropes as liability or risk management is asinine. Japan needs to get with the times and provide a better product. This though wont happen until the resorts themselves find a way to make money again. Link to post Share on other sites
Chriselle 158 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Saw a guy get nabbed for ducking ropes by patrol at Happo last year. Patrol insisted he hand over his lift pass. The guy played dumb...maybe he wasn't playing...and would not give up the goods. I watched this go on for about 10 minutes as it was rather amusing. The patrol getting more and more pissed and the dude refusing to give up the pass. The really goofy thing about it was it was 3 in the afternoon and the day was about done anyway.. I said,,... It's 3 oclock and you're both morons.... and skied out... Link to post Share on other sites
griller 9 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 If they're intent on getting tough with the naughty gaijin who do that, they need the people with the balls to go through with it. Some of them must really not be keen. You can just imagine. Link to post Share on other sites
Valve Bounce 0 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Chriselle Saw a guy get nabbed for ducking ropes by patrol at Happo last year. Patrol insisted he hand over his lift pass. The guy played dumb...maybe he wasn't playing...and would not give up the goods. I watched this go on for about 10 minutes as it was rather amusing. The patrol getting more and more pissed and the dude refusing to give up the pass. The really goofy thing about it was it was 3 in the afternoon and the day was about done anyway.. I said,,... It's 3 oclock and you're both morons.... and skied out... Well, I could try to say some rude stuff in Cantonese. Link to post Share on other sites
Metabo Oyaji 71 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Can't see being a knucklehead about it. If the ski area doesn't want people skiing out of bounds, don't. Go somewhere else if you must, but don't insist on your right to "educate" the poor, benighted owners on How Things Should Be Done. It's not exactly a human rights issue, after all. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I totally agree with you Metabo. Though beware, it's hardly the most gnarly thing to say! I do also agree on the real need for some change in the way resorts are run for many to survive in the long run. Or perhaps better saying for the better/worthy ones to survive. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Metabo Oyaji Can't see being a knucklehead about it. If the ski area doesn't want people skiing out of bounds, don't. Go somewhere else if you must, but don't insist on your right to "educate" the poor, benighted owners on How Things Should Be Done. It's not exactly a human rights issue, after all. Yeah most Japanese resorts are doing so well financially that there's no possible reason why listening to a bit of outside advice could be helpful at all! Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Is throwing abuse, doing what you want because you want to regardless of anything else and the like.... 'a bit of outside advice'? Link to post Share on other sites
Metabo Oyaji 71 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 The thread didn't seem to be about giving helpful outside advice, but rather about some people being blatant appendages. Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 sorry dudes, i duck ropes all the time. I dont do it in peoples faces though But let me explain: Resort: 180 degrees just behind the ropes: Im only FLESH AND BLOOD for goodness sake! You cant expect me to think entirely with personal safety in mind here actually i never rode this, but if just one person said "ipps, follow this trail round this way and youll come out at the gondola" itd have been bloody hard to not do it. Dont be mad guys! im only human Link to post Share on other sites
jared 0 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I go with the middle ground i.e try to stay out of sight when exiting and rejoining the trails to minimise the chance of being seen by patrol. When busted appear contrite say sorry and resist further offending for the rest of the day and they wont take your pass (important when you have a season pass). It really annoyed me when I showed the new american to town my fav spots and he made no effort to hide his activities, was smart to the patrol and would ski away when busted and continue to ski out of bounds immediately afterward in full view of the patrol. The perfect way to motivate the patrol to get serious with the "gaijin problem" and do something about it. Perhaps his parents were too lenient when he was a kid and he never had to perfect the fine art of getting away with stuff you are not supposed to be doing (on an ongoing basis). Link to post Share on other sites
Mick Rich 78 Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Captain Stag Perhaps his parents were too lenient when he was a kid and he never had to perfect the fine art of getting away with stuff you are not supposed to be doing (on an ongoing basis). Link to post Share on other sites
Ged 0 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 We obviously don't know each and every ski resort's policies, but in most cases the boundary marks the spot in which you can expect help if the unexpected happens, you go any further and you're on your own. I would assume the nearby patrollers would certainly come help you but at some very high financial cost to the offender. So if you get away with a sweet run in your favorite out-of-bound areas - great, but as a rescue would inevitably cost the resort a stretch on manpower not reckoned/budgeted for, it's hardly surprising they get pissed at it going on. Bear in mind also, that the Japan ski industry may not have the same resources & budget for snow saftey as other countries we are familiar with. Japanese avalanche death stats are grim reading. I would hope those who duck the ropes are prepared for the consequences should their day go pear-shaped. Better still - get knowledgable, take an avalanche course and join a licenced backcountry trip. The rewards for earning your own turns are much, much better! (...and no grief when you come back in bounds at the end of the day) Ski/Ride safe. Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 yeah, most places in japan have a big sign saying "if you go out of bounds and get knacked, we'll come get you if we can, but youre paying through the nose for it". I think many people make calculated risks when they drop under the ropes. But man oh man, what id really like to see is something like at kamui. That is free open access and instead of clear courses, some sign postage inside to make sure you dont get lost or go too far. I also like their avi info which is very explicit on what faces theyre worried about as well as their policy to come rescue you anywhere. Edit: I also like gates. I like them a lot. I mean gates like they have on the adventure course at goryu, strawberry fields in niseko, or that gate next to chair 5 at kamui. Basically its a big sign telling you that its unlooked after, and that you ride at your own risk. What i like about it is that from that point on, the only real ropes you need are either to protect against genuine traps, areas that lead off the resort, and blind spots on merging to the main trail. On a standard resort with plenty of ropes though, theres many places you ride and wonder honestly why its roped off. Im sure theres a reason of course, even if that reason is related more to cost efficiency than actual terrain traps or general safety. But once you ride it youre often thinking "what the hell was that roped off for?" It leads to a kind of disregard for ropes in a way. The rope has of course another more psychological pressing issue: it stops many many people from going that way. But at the same time preserves those tracks making them ever more tempting for eejits like me who just want a bit of powder to play in. A final issue related t9o the above point: The more ropes, the more likely a person just like me will think "this isnt all about safety". And really that line of thinking is clearly borderline stupidity when you even consider it for a second. It's literally the belief that because so much is roped off you are willing to flip the coin under the auspice that *this* line is one of the lines thats roped off more for expediency or legislating to the least safe among us with much less info than the people in charge of ski patrol. Only, the least safe among us are precisely people like me at the end of the day willing to flip a coin on limited knowledge about unfamiliar terrain and duck a rope just for a bit of pow. And if we've done our avi safety course... lord help us and the overconfidence that comes with it! If anything should give you pause for thought when ducking ropes or riding what looks like completely safe (within rider ability) terrain, its probably something like this.... particularly if you ride alone: At the end of the day and unless there are speed fences like you get in korea, people are going to duck ropes because the temptation for a fresh line is just so huge. Indeed, i just wrote a review of furano about my 9 days of no powder, and one of the silver lines i played up was precisely the availability of powder in little stashes in amongst the trees or under the lift lines even when the mountain was starting to peer through the groomers. Still, as jynxx rightly mentioned, if the ropes came down people like me would all be bitching about the tracked out lines everywhere. So in truth, i kinda like them. Link to post Share on other sites
sanjo 2 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Originally Posted By: RedJedi We obviously don't know each and every ski resort's policies, but in most cases the boundary marks the spot in which you can expect help if the unexpected happens, you go any further and you're on your own. I would assume the nearby patrollers would certainly come help you but at some very high financial cost to the offender. 100% cost to the offender. Link to post Share on other sites
seemore 66 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 That is a pretty scary scenario if you were by yourself I reckon you wouldn't be able to get out. Seemore Link to post Share on other sites
ippy 66 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 yupyup, i reckon most people would be dead if no one was spotting them. One of the things i discovered this year riding off the back gates is how easy it is for people to leave their least adept member (me) behind if the stoke is on. Of course i got my revenge by scaring the pants out of them when they lost me one day and i ended up accidentally in moiwa They were a bit more careful after that. and its nice because watching their mistakes made me conscious that id probably be making the same mistake if i was the stronger rider. Its a good lesson to learn. Sure, i wasnt in any serious serious danger where we were riding, but i guess the dudes in the clip felt the same. Lucky for them they were riding one at a time and spotting. Link to post Share on other sites
Mick Rich 78 Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 That's one helluva scary-ass video Certainly makes you (well me, at least) think twice about riding alone through the trees!! Link to post Share on other sites
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