sanjo 2 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The below is a snap from the webcam at Centleisure Maiko in Mimamiuonuma (near Yuzawa) in Niigata. At 12:00 noon. Can you spot anyone there? Maiko is a decent and dare I say it popular resort and I really like it. But this is just shocking. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Little wonder so many resorts in this country are struggling to survive... Link to post Share on other sites
Chriselle 158 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I wish I could take more weekdays off. If it's like that tomorrow or Sunday then that's a problem. Link to post Share on other sites
rider69 18 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 It could be closed? Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 It's why the foreign market is so good for Niseko and I'd suspect for the Hakuba area. Because they are coming from further away they stay longer and at least up here there is very little lull in numbers mid week. Of course it is still busier on weekends with the domestic market. I know it's great to get to a mountain and have virtually no one there with fresh tracks all day long but really how long can resorts last like that? Lifts are not cheap to run, especially the mostly old ones you find in Japan. Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: rider69 It could be closed? Nope. It is open. Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: Go Native I know it's great to get to a mountain and have virtually no one there with fresh tracks all day long but really how long can resorts last like that? Too few people feels pretty strange too Go Native. Kind of eeerie even. Lacking any kind of 'atmosphere'. Having said that, crowds ain't good but you got to feel for places when they are empty like that. Maiko is a good place. It's super convenient as well as it's just a km or two from the Shiozawa Ishiuchi IC on the Kanetsu expressway (the next one up from Yuzawa). It does get fairly busy on weekends and holidays but nothing crazy when I have been. Weekdays though lots of the resorts around here are similarly empty. I'll be there soon, maybe even tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites
nippontiger 8 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 So, people in Japan have notoriously few holidays when compared to say, people living in European countries. I wonder what would be the effect on the nation's economy if people were allowed to take more time off? Surely it would be a boost for the domestic tourism market? I'm sure the local ski-jo's wouldn't be complaining... Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Blimey. Ah. I know, it being 12 noon, everyone has gone to lunch at the same time... as they do. Link to post Share on other sites
Chriselle 158 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: BagOfCrisps Blimey. Ah. I know, it being 12 noon, everyone has gone to lunch at the same time... as they do. Haha...Katsukare Kinyoubi. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Originally Posted By: Go Native It's why the foreign market is so good for Niseko and I'd suspect for the Hakuba area. Because they are coming from further away they stay longer and at least up here there is very little lull in numbers mid week. Of course it is still busier on weekends with the domestic market. I know it's great to get to a mountain and have virtually no one there with fresh tracks all day long but really how long can resorts last like that? Lifts are not cheap to run, especially the mostly old ones you find in Japan. Agree. And with so many fine resorts in Japan it would be great to be sharing the Western Tourist marketing a bit. Win Win for everyone - I have been more than happy with the 'crowd' here in Niseko but there are more people and more difficulty getting bookings at restaurants than there was in Hakuba. It would be great to see more International Tourists travelling further afield than just Niseko and Hakuba. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Seriously. Resorts need to try and get the domestic market back. The big problem they have is that there are simply too many skijo, as has been discussed many times on here. Many smaller places simply need to close down for a big-picture upswing to happen, sad as that may well be for some people. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I think it's more than that though ski. I believe the ski resorts here have lost touch with a whole new generation of skiers/boarders. We all know the industry worldwide has changed dramatically over the last 20 years but very few resorts in Japan have changed a thing in that time. Whilst the rest of the world has upgraded lifts and facilities and opened up off-piste terrain and built huge parks most Japanese resorts have done absolutely nothing. They are still run exactly the same as they were in the 80's. Most still restrict off-piste skiing and have parks that are frankly embarrassing. Many of the resorts it's hard to even hire skis that aren't ancient skinny planks made for big GS turns. The whole industry is stuck in the past. The domestic market has steadily decreased by about 10% a year ever since the bursting of the bubble. This is exactly what you would expect if you are not attracting new customers and your existing ones are dying off. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Oh yes I totally agree with you there Go Native. There has been a huge amount of complacancy when they had more skiers than they knew how to deal with. That complacency I suspect has turned into a feeling of give-up-edness, 'shoganai', with some of the places that are really struggling. There just doesn't seem a way back for a fair few I'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan#Andrew 6 Posted January 22, 2011 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted January 22, 2011 Originally Posted By: Mamabear Originally Posted By: Go Native It's why the foreign market is so good for Niseko and I'd suspect for the Hakuba area. Because they are coming from further away they stay longer and at least up here there is very little lull in numbers mid week. Of course it is still busier on weekends with the domestic market. I know it's great to get to a mountain and have virtually no one there with fresh tracks all day long but really how long can resorts last like that? Lifts are not cheap to run, especially the mostly old ones you find in Japan. Agree. And with so many fine resorts in Japan it would be great to be sharing the Western Tourist marketing a bit. Win Win for everyone - I have been more than happy with the 'crowd' here in Niseko but there are more people and more difficulty getting bookings at restaurants than there was in Hakuba. It would be great to see more International Tourists travelling further afield than just Niseko and Hakuba. It's happening.... slowly. I suspect it is always going to be a relatively small number of the total, but that's still a lot and there are definitely enough places of interest out there. Each year I speak with some resorts that we have never had any contact with before. And it's far from being all sales-type talk - we do things that can help a resort that don't cost them anything at all - but some are simply not interested and even go further than that... one resort in October told me that they do NOT want any foreigners to visit their resort because 'they cause problems'. They were almost angry at us for introducing foreigners to their resort on SnowJapan and actually requested that we take down their basic resort data from the site. That's how much they do not want the 'hassle' of foreigners. On a positive note though I always feel very happy to be able to help and do what we can to support resorts that are interested in opening up themselves a new market and show real interest and positive actions. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Originally Posted By: SJ-Andrew one resort in October told me that they do NOT want any foreigners to visit their resort because 'they cause problems'. They were almost angry at us for introducing foreigners to their resort on SnowJapan and actually requested that we take down their basic resort data from the site. That's how much they do not want the 'hassle' of foreigners. That's nuts. Did they say what the hassle/problems were? Link to post Share on other sites
Thundercat 60 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Originally Posted By: SJ-Andrew Each year I speak with some resorts that we have never had any contact with before. And it's far from being all sales-type talk - we do things that can help a resort that don't cost them anything at all - but some are simply not interested and even go further than that... one resort in October told me that they do NOT want any foreigners to visit their resort because 'they cause problems'. They were almost angry at us for introducing foreigners to their resort on SnowJapan and actually requested that we take down their basic resort data from the site. That's how much they do not want the 'hassle' of foreigners. I really want to go there now Would you mind tell me which resort it was? You could even PM me the name and I'll promise to keep it a secret! Link to post Share on other sites
nippontiger 8 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Its been the same for years in Japan; onsen, ryokan, minshuku...all known to refuse foreign customers. Its getting better, of course, but its still not unheard of for places to say they dont want, or to actually refuse foreigners because "they cause problems". Link to post Share on other sites
ausi ski bum 1 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Even the bigger resorts could do better re foreigners. Many like Shiga Kogen don't even have an english trail map and information is hard to find, for example 90% of the buildings there have no english writing on them so someone like me planning to return has no idea what hotel is what. They don't do themselves any favours. Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I think one of the points was that sometimes 'they' don't actually want to do themselves any favours in terms of foreigners.... Link to post Share on other sites
ausi ski bum 1 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Business is business, money from local or OS sources is the difference between survival or not. Clearly the resorts that have best embraced this, are the ones doing the best today. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Japan is pretty Xenophobic though, any chance to blame a foreigner and they jump all over it Link to post Share on other sites
SKI 15 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Originally Posted By: ausi ski bum Business is business, money from local or OS sources is the difference between survival or not. Clearly the resorts that have best embraced this, are the ones doing the best today. And I suppose you are an expert then on the financial status of skijo around Japan? I'm not but I know a little bit and I would not necessarily agree with the above. Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver Japan is pretty Xenophobic though, any chance to blame a foreigner and they jump all over it I wouldn't give it such a strong term TB, it's more just that they have no idea what to do, it sounds like a whole world of hassle, they don't want to give the idea any resources and that makes then literally scared of the idea in general. Link to post Share on other sites
Metabo Oyaji 71 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I agree that the key will be the domestic market for most places, not the tourist market. And I don't know what to say there. Snow sports just will probably never again be as popular as they were during the '80s, just like golf. There will always be a certain percentage of enthusiasts, but Japan already has twice as many ski areas per capita as the US, for example, and of course an even higher percentage compared to Australia. A quick web search shows that Canada beats Japan by about 25% in that department, but of course Japan has much more southern territory than Canada. Getting the next generation hooked is key to long-term survival, I believe, and I do see ski areas focusing more and more on that. Also, the cheap highways initiatives by the government have to be helping a lot. I know it has put a lot more places in reach for me, at least. My range is determined more now by my stamina than it is by my wallet. As for not wanting to deal with foreigners, I can understand not wanting to print new maps -- that's fine, don't -- but cannot condone active discrimination. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Just a couple of points but first of all, there isn't a "whole new generation" of skiers and boarders. There is maybe only sixty or seventy percent of one. That's what happens when you have a falling birthrate for a long long time. The number of Japanese who turned twenty last year was half the peak number. This year was down another 30,000. If you have half as many young people, guess what's going to happen to the number of young skiers. That's before you even have to consider any economic factors, the one-line summary of which would be twenty years of deflation. There are fewer people with less money. Secondly, Japanese are fickle and prone to booms. Along with underused ski resorts, Hakuba has many completely unused tennis courts and some massive hiking lodges with very low occupancy, both the result of other booms. Just as those activities won't come back to anything like the same degree, neither will skiing because it was all temporary, fashion-driven demand. Young people have their own fashions, tastes, and more opportunities for stuff like foreign travel. When Japanese ski resorts were expanding like mad in the 1980s, the yen was still 250ish to the dollar. Along the fashion to go skiing, there has also been a major breakdown in patriarchical role of the company and group-centered activities. A not-insignificant part of business for all domestic tourism, be it Japanese onsen towns, golf resorts, ski resorts, etc. was company trips and entertaining. Most of that has gone now. Companies hire and fire when they can. They don't see staff as family members, and employees can't be bothered with that to anything like the same degree. Almost all the Japanese dads I know play with their kids. That didn't happen a generation ago. Moving forward, ideally the better or more sustainable resorts would survive, but the truth is that a good number of them are run as tax writeoffs for other businesses, as shacho's brother's plaything, or are propped up by public money in a civic pride/face-saving operation. In that situation, there is far more at play than just the bottom line. The best or more suitable don't necessarily survive. I don't remember when Happo made their English map, but it was at least five years after the Olympics. It took years of advice and complaints for it to be made. Link to post Share on other sites
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