Ocean11 0 Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 In January there was some excitement about the 'DBD' club at Tsugaike. More info here; http://www.snowjapan.com/e/daily/shownow1.php?month=01&year=2003&town=Hakuba%20Now! So, two months on, what's the story with that? Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Not been to the resort, actually. Link to post Share on other sites
frannyo 2 Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Somewhere nearer home I'd jump at the chance.. Link to post Share on other sites
barok 0 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 had to vote truthfully even though I said I was going to sign up for this club - the truth is I am broke, so I haven't yet - maybe tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 I lied a bit. In truth I never signed up for the club but if I lived closer to Hakuba I would. Link to post Share on other sites
klingon 10 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 It does sound good but,....nope. Link to post Share on other sites
r45 4 Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I'm a bit far off But it sounds like a good idea. Why haven't more people tried? I wonder if it was a success with the J crowd? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted March 22, 2003 Author Share Posted March 22, 2003 It sounds like a silly idea to me - pay money and go through some bureaucratic crap to do what you can do without paying money and going through some bureaucratic crap. There's no benefit to the punter at all, least of all safety-wise. You hit a tree or get stuck upside down and they come and look for your cold dead body after 4pm - very safety country. Plus it doesn't sound as though the terrain is that exciting anyway. Nope, they need to rethink this one... Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 In Canada not too many patrol cruise the trees on a regular basis anyways. Last run is when they will do the end of the day sweep. The fact is any start is a good start. Link to post Share on other sites
klingon 10 Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 How are/did they publicise that anyway? Link to post Share on other sites
fukdane 2 Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 No-one I know (including a few people living there) seems to know about it. Link to post Share on other sites
S(in)ister 0 Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Any comments from the 2 who answered yes to joining? Link to post Share on other sites
steeno 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 this sounds like a big marketing scheme to me?! i have to pay money to join a "special" club only to ski something not "very-special" actually the more i think of it the more i think it's absolutely brilliant. resorts are there to make money and what better way than to create a "special" area for "special" people... it's a "special" idea. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 It doesnt cost that much and its for the season. Steeno remember a lot of the areas you see here are off limits. Now lots of us jump into some of these areas but they are uncontrolled and your pass can be pulled. A program like this if it works can or might help the resorts to open more. Link to post Share on other sites
steeno 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 i hear ya. it's just kind of frustrating that it would be off limits when it really shouldn't be. but starting somewhere is better than no where. that states are really starting to push the boundry issue as well. jackson has a great gate program that allows you to assess and decide and many other places are doing something similar...safety through education. Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 I've no hope for a better solution or even any solution to this problem in Japan. After boarding this year at Park City, Snowbird, and Brighton in Utah, at Sierra-at-Tahoe and Squaw Valley in Tahoe, and Big Sky in Montana, the situation in Japan seems even more absurd. At those resorts, there is hardly anywhere roped off. You go up the lift and come down where you like. If it is roped off, it's because it's a rock field that will ruin your base, or it's an impassable course with a cliff or a long uphill runout. At some of these resorts, it's hard to make any distinction between the "course" and the "trees"...it's just you and the big mountain. In Japan, there is a severe lack of challenging terrain for the advanced rider. But when when you look at the mountains there, you can see the good stuff--roped off or not lift-accessed. The patrol suffers from the uniformed fascist disease. And the resorts have no concept of, or desire to offer, the Genuine Goods. Really. It is absolutely absurd. Advanced terrain in Japan is pretty much a joke. Now you have to pay somebody extra money to go under a rope? For what? Supervised tree-skiing (supervision = some old guy or an egotistical uniformed youth with scant ski/rescue skills coming down once at 4 pm to see what happened)? This reminds me of that mountain in Japan where you had to show the staff that you could snowboard, then buy a 1000-yen license to ride... When I look at resort staff and patrollers in Japan, it is pretty obvious that they just have no idea about what is the ski resort norm in other countries. Never mind though, because when I look at the average skier/rider in Japan, all they need is what they've already got. Maybe this is a self-fulfilling prophecy here. If I move back to Japan, you'll find me hiking the goods, and believe me, I HATE to hike. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Resorts here were never planned to access half the stuff we want to ride anyway. I too want the goods but the fact is it has to start somewhere and maybe this can lead somewhere. There are more resorts opening bounderies here but its asia and its slow going. I find my stashes and have no complaints heck if they did open the stuff up you couldnt ride as much pow no could ya. Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Yeah, you're right, we have to start somewhere. But when I first read this article a couple of months ago, it seemed to me to be not only a very small, step, but also a step in the totally wrong direction--a step toward even more unnecessary regulation and predatory, tiered pricing practices similar to that mountain where you still have to buy a 1,000 yen license to snowboard. I think we should start somewhere else, this approach is all wrong. First, it perpetuates the rather Japanese myth that it's required to have an elder of unquestionable, liver-spotted authority pretending to take care of you because we all know people can't take care of themselves in this dangerous world. Second, it purports to charge for something that should be free. Kids, this stuff IS free, at other resorts around the world. Third, it merely perpetuates the existing paradigm that all areas of the mountain are to be controlled and doled out by people who don't really seem to know that much about what the experience could truly be. Fourth, it seems the areas grudgingly opened are rather tame and small. Fat chance they'll open anything really challenging, because the old birds up in the shack won't want or be able to patrol it on their 4 p.m. glory run. This club apparently doesn't require a skills test, just a meeting with a patroller. You pay the money, but for what? Restaurant discounts and the promise that if you don't hand in your silly armband at 4 pm, they will ski down to look for you. A sign-in system already exists (for free!) in other countries, but only where access is to avalanche or other very dangerous areas. You have to sign in with patrol at the resort's backcountry/unpatrolled access gate, and prove that you have a shovel and avalanche tranceiver. After that, you are on your own. These extreme circumstances hardly apply to the smallish section of trees described in this article. It runs out onto a "beginner course". You have to go back up to the patrol shack at the end of the day to turn in your armband? Who wants to bother with that on their last run? I think a better place to start is to avoid paying extra money for kindergarten supervision at clubs like this, and start skiing where you really want to ski. Hike it and start having some fun. Or, duck those ropes but stay out of trouble. Another place to start: ski elsewhere until some resort actually figures out there is a pretty good market here for people who want to ski/board the whole mountain. Link to post Share on other sites
zwelgen 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 As much as I get pissed off with ropes and regulations I think they serve me the above average skier very well. I get fresh tracks days after a dump, the goods are still there at 1pm and if you play the game and choose your days where youll push the ticket a bit you can have awesome riding. Im not looking forward to leaving this and having to fight other people for the goods. When you look at the number of people on the mtn most are concerned with either getting the next level on the ski test so are doing their technique practice or they are going big in the park or they are the OLs or mum and dads that just want to do something and skiing is kakkoi. They arent there for the extreme stuff. Lets face it, the resorts cater for Id estimate 95% of what the punters want and the other 5% are just trouble makers. Link to post Share on other sites
scoobydoo 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Quote: Second, it purports to charge for something that should be free. Kids, this stuff IS free, at other resorts around the world. While that may well be so, it hardly means that it has to be free here though does it? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 Well said that man. Just a quick correction -- it's not 'that mountain' that has the snowboard license, it's 'those mountains'. Actually, one of them, Echo Valley has dropped the system. Ironically they were calling themselves 'kokusai' which involved hanging a few foreign flags around the entrance but not actually aspiring to international standards. I don't think the DBD 'club' will ever take off anywhere for all the reasons that badmigraine mentions. When more Japanese people ride in the deeps as they're increasingly doing, and when more of them get killed, then ultimately they'll have to develop an intelligent gate system. As for the fear that such a system would result in the end of untracked powder, just go to Nozawa with a speculative eye and imagine a couple more lifts here and there, and you'll realize that there's enough for everyone. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 scoobydoo, you've just qualified for Japanese citizenship and a lifelong job working for the Department of Immigration. Congratulations! Here's your first pack of 7-star lights! Link to post Share on other sites
scoobydoo 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Hey sorry for just posting an opinion you may disagree with there. The cheek of it, I don't know how I could have thought of doing such a thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 S'alright scoobydoo, you're welcome to your opinion, and I'm free to comment on it, as you are about mine... To turn your question around, why shouldn't what's free in other places be free here (powder snow, re-entry with a visa, cash from an ATM etc., etc.)? Link to post Share on other sites
scoobydoo 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 OK, so you think that everything that is free in the UK, for example, should be free in Japan and everywhere else, irrespective of whatever differences there may be in a market/customers/management, etc etc? That seems more than a little simplistic and naive. Your reputation preceeds you, Ocean11, so I know you there is a good chance of you coming back with an endless supply of sarcasm, so feel free - but I'm outta here and into another thread. Bye. Link to post Share on other sites
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