Ippy's Guide to Buying a new snowboard

[ippy 66]

So I got a bit of time to kill at work today and tomorrow, and I remember from my own experience 2 years ago trying to find this advice and struggling. So here's a very basic and GENERAL guide on what you want to do:

 

Things to note before i start all this:

 

1. I have 3 whole whopping years of riding experience. This is not enough to even remotely offer an authority on the decks I've ridden, let ALONE, the decks I've never sniffed.

 

Lucky for you then, I spent a lot of time listening to other people and learning from their experience. Still, it means this guide is not even remotely definitive. its just a guide. My hope is that other people will correct me, or voice in personal anecdotes that give a much more rounded perspective on my often overly general opinion.

 

2. 90/10. The classic formula of all snowboarding. 90% rider, 10% gear. You likely won't be taking a Burton Fish in the park, but you CAN, and if youre good enough, you'll kill it. I will say stuff like "jib boards are crap for edge control at speed" and for the most part thats true, but theres plenty of people capable of adjusting their riding (or lowering their stance/center of gravity) to compensate for it. Just because it generally isnt the best thing for something, doesn't mean it cant be done on it... even if i say "it cant be done on it"

 

Anyways, with that in mind, heres the general plan of the outline:

 

Step 1: Types of Board (the quiver - Freestyle and Freeride)

Step 2: Sizing

Step 3: Flex

Step 4: The Base

Step 5: Board Shapes

Step 6: Camber versus reverse camber versus hybrid camber (and its millions of variations).

Step 7: Final Opinions.

 

Step 1: Types of Board:

 

FREESTYLE DECKS

 

Don't be fooled, freestyle DOES NOT MEAN PARK. I have to make that clear because it's one of the most common misunderstandings of the term. Rather, these decks are forgiving, versatile, and easy to handle. They are IDEAL for a beginner or for someone who hasn't yet found their preference. Sure, they also love park, but the sheer diversity of freestyle decks should alert you to their possibilities. This section is broken up into 4 sub headings: jib; park; all resort; and all mountain. Really what separates them more than anything is flex, shape, and camber profiles. You will see they start off as twin shaped, reverse camber, very bendy, (and very forgiving) and move towards a directional/directional twin shape, camber/hybrid camber, and fairly stiff (and not so forgiving). Thats really about the sum of it.

 

The one thing that links all of these decks together is that they arent really freeride charging decks. Some can charge, some can smash through chop, and some will slice your finger open if youre stupid enough to slide it down the edge of the deck while waiting in the lift queue (done that!). But thats not what they're really built for. What they really want you to do, is throw them about a bit. They want you to fly, to spin, to press, to butter, to doink, to pretty much turn wherever it is you are into a park feature. Be that urban rials, climbing the walls in the resort, to jibbing off trees, bouncing off pillows, and all the way through to launching off back country kickers and cliff dropping. They want you to muck about a bit, and most importantly, give you the shape/profile to do it. Understand though, you'll still get to charge, bomb, and wreck anything in your way the more towards all mountain freestyle you go.

 

 

 

Freestyle 1: the Jib/rail/street/noodle deck

 

General specs:

Flex: 2-3.5

Base: Extruded

Shape: True Twin

Camber: Reverse

Best for: Jibs/rails/buttering/cruising

 

 

Jib means anything you can bounce off. Be it a rail, a tree, a pole, or a tree stump. Jib decks are often very soft, bendy, and easy to press. An awesome jib deck is the capita Horrorscope (but you can also include the bataleon airobic, gnu street, k2-WWW, or the signal park rocker).

 

Consider this board if youre a park rat and dont really hit the groomers. Its not an all mountain and its pretty much going to keep you locked into the park at a resort. You will be able to cruise the groomers of course, but you wont be really pushing it for speed. This is a pure freestyle stick.

 

(Jargon watch: Pressing is where you sit on the tail or nose of the deck. Buttering is where youre mainly spinning around and pressing the board. Park rats are the kids that sit in park all day. Groomers are the designated offical courses at a resort. A noodle is a board thats kinda easy to twist and bend (like a wet noodle). Finally, a freestyle board kinda means a board thats good for tricks (though this term gets much more complicated later on)).

 

Cons:

Terrible for speed; no real 'pop'; not so stable for landings off reasonable sized kickers.

 

Overall: A great quiver board, but unless rails and boxes are your meat and potatoes, this won't be your go-to deck.

 

Freestyle 2: The all-round park board

 

General Specs:

Flex: 3.5-5

Base: Varies

Shape: True Twin

Camber: Varies

Best for: Small-med kickers; cruising; all round park features

 

 

The park is not just jibs and boxes, its also jumps. Its also the pipe. When you jump, you want above all stable landings (you dont want to fly out from the tail) and you also want a bit of pop. If you hit a good sized kicker on a noodle, chances are youre going to slide out on the landing. The aim then of these boards is to give you something with a bit more bite and a bit more power from both the run up to the jump and also from the take off itself.

 

These are often also the decks that most people recommend absolute beginners ride. A classic example of this is the Burton Blunt (though truth is, since they switched the design to reverse camber its now a borderline jib deck). The reason is that they are soft, forgiving, and provide a lot more versatility than a jib deck. You CAN learn to carve on these, so your progression wont be as restricted, but you also won't feel you're stuck in the park either. It's almost the perfect deck for someone just starting out. It does have similar restrictions as your jib deck, but things like the Bataleon Evil Twin or the Neversummer EVO-R will likely not reach those limitations until you start hitting some serious speed.

 

Boards to consider: Capita Ultrafear, stairmaster and stairmaster Extreme; Bataleon Evil Twin; Neversummer Evo-R; Burton blunt; Rome Artifact

 

Freestyle 3: The All RESORT Freestyle Stick

 

General Specs:

Flex: 4.5-6.5

Shape: True Twin/Directional Twin

Base: often sintered but varies

Camber: tending to reverse and hybrid.

Best for: having a pop at it all. Its versatility is its single best feature.

 

 

This is the kissing cousin to the deck above. It'e pretty much a freestyle stick, BUT and heres the thing, it usually has a stiffer flex which gives you much more versatility all over the mountain.

 

When people ask for recommendations on a new deck, this is usually the one they have in mind. Its the do it all-the-resort-is-your-playground, cruiser, hangover, jack of all trades board. Its super fun, super playful, super forgiving, super versatile super super. The reason they want this deck is pretty simple: The want a quiver killer that let's them do pretty much everything without feeling restricted to one thing. People don't really know their preferences until they've given the whole mountain a decent shot, so this board let's them have a real stab at finding them out.

 

Now it obviously comes at a bit of a price. It's a jack of all trades (master of none), so you wont be buttering with quite the aplomb of someone on a horrorscope, nor will you be laying down pin like carves like your mate on the rome anthem, but you will be having a crack at it all and thats the point. This board lets you do everything. Not brilliantly, but not shoddily either. Its key feature is versatility.

 

Last year this was my go to deck (sierrascope, which is pretty much the indoor FK) and it was honestly fantastic fun and let me turn the whole resort into a gigantic park. Youll be bouncing off bumps, and shooting up walls, and buttering on the flats. Since mine was reverse camber, the pow was awesome! But ride it long enough and you'll find its not the quiver killer you might initially think it is. Then again, you're not me

 

Boards to consider: Capita Indoor/FK; Bataleon Riot; Never Summer SL-R; Ride DH-2; Rome Agent/rocker; Nitro Team Gullwing; Burton Custom/FlyingV; Libtech Skate Banana; Yes rocker twin; Gnu Pickle; Libtech TRS.

 

Freestyle 4: The ALL Mountain/Big Mountain Freestyle stick

 

General Specs:

Flex: 6-8

Base: Usually sintered

Shape: Directional Twin/Directional

Camber: Regular/Hybrid

Best for: Big Air, Big lines, Pipe, Cliff drops, anything really that requires an aggressive, bombproof ride.

Rider in mind: Experienced.

 

 

I added an extra line in the general summary because i do want to disuade you from picking this one up UNLESS you know it's what you want. The reason is pretty straightforward, these decks are both aggressive (and will ride you), and also very unforgiving for a freestyle stick. In terms of resort, they are nowhere near as versatile as the previous two categories and they will spank you around a bit.

 

That being said, you may one day find yourself looking for a slightly more stable, aggressive, but freestyle ride, and this is exactly where you want to be looking. Sure, they dont kill it on the rails, but that's not what you'll want it for. You want it for hitting a 40 footer and knowing you have the speed maneuverability, and stability to nail that landing. You want it because when you launch in switch it feels as good as regular, and you want it because when you hit that 20 foot cliff drop and you can't make out your landing until the last second, you know the deck isnt going to snap like a twig on you. (NB. i should remind you, none of this is MY experience, i can barely drop off a five footdrop without feeling utter fear).

 

This is what this deck is for. Its for a rider that thinks the park is nothing more than a hand holding, cotton wool wrapping, mollycoddling artificial training ground. Indeed, it's for the rider that thinks the resort as a whole is penned in, simplified, and artificial environment. Nature has all that stuff, and what's more, it'll kick your ass if you aren't on point. The sole point of this deck is to help you take nature down a peg or two. Well, that and killing it in the pipe.

 

These decks are for the most part the stiffest freestyle decks, they're usually sintered and they're almost always directional twin. There is one thing though to mention: There is a slight difference between pipe/kickers and back country freestyle in that the pipe/kicker decks tend to be cambered whilst the bc freestyle tend towards a hybrid camber.

 

Some decks to consider: Burton Custom X; Burton Sherlock; Capita FoodcourtGangsta/Quiver killer; Forum seeker (no 2011 i believe); Bataleon Jam; Gnu Danny Kass; Gnu Altered Genetics; Never Summer Heritage; Arbor Wasteland; K2 Zero; Ride Concept.

 

FREERIDE DECKS

 

I've broken this section into two main headings: Freeride and Pow. I did this for simplicities sake and also because although i own a freeride (an artec 2.3) I just don't really know enough about them as a whole to make a more technical distinction. I'm skipping over alpine carving decks as well because they are very much a niche deck and if you know you want an alpine carving deck, this guide is probably not for you anyway

 

Because it's only two categories, I won't really go into the details of what makes a freeride stick, since the next category will pretty mcuh cover that, but I will outline a general idea.

 

Freeride decks are for people who want big lines, big pow, and precise technical performance. They are almost always on the stiffer end of the range, almost always directional, tapered, and have laser sharp edges. They aren't so great for beginners simply because they don't have the forgiveness or resort focus that many of the freestyle ranges have. This does not mean a beginner shouldn't buy one (they shouldn't by the way!).

 

But the beginners who should be on one of these is really restricted to the most foolhardy back country obsessed lunatic who thinks pain is a really good teacher. If all you can think about is riding huge lines on a pure white sea of untracked lines, and don't mind that you'll be spending about thirty percent of your ride time scorpioning or being hurtled screaming well beyond your natural safety and comfort zone (another reason why beginners shouldnt touch this deck), then this might be what youre after... it's not though - what you're after is a nice medium flexed camber deck like the custom.

 

Freeride Deck 1: The All Big Mountain Freeride Deck.

 

General Specs:

Flex: 6-8

Base: Usually sintered

Shape: Directional

Camber: Regular/Hybrid

Best for: Bombing, charging, and having total and utter control of your ride.

Terrible for: Beginners.

Rider in mind: Experienced.

 

 

I have a Love/Hate relationship with my artec. The deck is beautiful, sleek, built like a tank, and holds an edge like youre riding on a rail, but man, the thing HATES me. If it wasnt having me splat on my face when I accidentally distributed my weight a teensy tiny bit wrong, it was busy hurling me down a mountain faster than i could cope with while i clung on for dear life not daring to move for fear it would scorpion me for a laugh. And it did scorpion me for a laugh on more than one occasion.

 

Freeride boards are pure evil, and they seem to hate inexperienced riders more than anything else in the world (well that and boxes). These decks will destroy you if you even so much as step on them. They are unforgiving, spiteful, angry, fussy maniacs. If you don't do things just so-so, expect to be dropped on your face... again. And yes, it's always the face...

 

Still here? Okay then, I'll let you in on a secret... they may enjoy smacking you around a bit, but like Mr. Miyagi, they do it to make you better. And nothing will make you a more technical rider than a freeride stick. And why is that? Pain is a fantastic teacher.

 

Nothing makes you stop doing something you shouldn't be doing, faster than smacking your face into the side of a mountain. Unlike your mates sliding in and out of carves on their custom-v, you will be moving gracefully from edge to edge and leaving pin like tracks in your wake. This board will teach you, if nothing else, how to use and control your edges; it's this which allows you to reach ever higher speeds, and progress into the back country. No other board will teach you edge control better than a freeride, since that is what they are pretty much all about. And once you have complete control over your edges, you can ride pretty much anything.

 

The freeride needs someone with great edge control because it wants to show you what its capable of. And what it is capable of is ploughing you through any steep, any terrain, any natural feature the world has to throw at you. This is your go-to "i am going to ride that ridiculous line" deck. If you like chutes, bowls, drops and massive wide open fields of untracked snow, this is the board you want. This is the board that will open up the mountain for you. Its solid, stable, blindingly fast, aggressive and has massive potential. You are the worst thing about this deck, since more than likely, its only you that's holding it back from showing you its true potential.

 

Some recommendations: Capita BSOD; Jones Flagship; NeverSummer Titan/Raptor; Bataleon Undisputed; Burton T6/T7; Arbor Aframe; Rome Design; Palmer Crown; Lib Tech TRiceC2.

 

Freeride Deck 2: Pow Decks.

 

General Specs:

Flex: 6-8

Base: Usually sintered

Shape: Directional and heavy Taper

Camber: S-Camber

Best for: HUGE EPIC LINES OF WHITE FLUFFY CLOUDS

Terrible for: East coast US, but aside that, no one at all. Its POW!!!

Rider in mind: Everyone who lives in japan and gets a dump.

 

 

Pow. What the hell can you say? If you dont love pow, you shouldnt have sized down your camber stick, shoulf you?! Ever just cruised on a sea of pow and felt at peace with the universe watching that gentle spray fly up at the side of your deck? How about if youve ever taken a face shot buzzing through the trees? What about if you discovered a line no one else has ridden and it's deep and fluffy and all it wants is for you to hit it.

 

Pow man! And when your 200lb frame is sat on your 151 and youre crying about leg burn and set back stances, this might be the answer to your prayers.

 

A little bit of warning though. They aren't suitable for all round resort riding. In fact, you'll maybe only get a few really solid days on one each season (unless you live in alaska or hokkaido). So don't be looking at this as anything more than quiver board. But man, when youre on one, and flying through the pow and literally having to do nothing more strenuous than sit on it, you'll be ecstatic that you brought it that day.

 

Unlike a normal directional freeride, pow decks tend to have their own special shape precisely to allow for greater float and to get you sinking your weight into the back of the deck. They come in some mad shapes to help that out, but the general gist is: weight at back, float at front. This way not only will you never sink the nose, you'll also have total control of the deck. What's more, these decks aren't really as mean as your classic freeride stick; they pretty much have one function, and thats to get you swimming up to your eyeballs in soft fluffy powder and grinning your face off. Whats not to love?

 

Really this category could also be split into two, but im not going to. But i'll mention it briefly here:

The first deck is the classic pow deck. This thing has one and only one function: to maximise your float and blast you through the pow. Every part of its construction is to get you surfing pow. I put a picture of the rome motch up there precisely because you know you're dealing with something a little more singularly focussed than the other styles of deck out there. It will have a huge nose, a swallow tail and more than likely have a very powder specific camber profile (with reverse camber at the front insert, and zero or regular camber between the bindings).

 

On the other hand, you also have your mellow pow deck which is very much a freeride stick with a heavy taper (kind of like the malolo or charlie slasher). These decks can be ridden somewhat comfortably on most terrain and offer a bit more versatility than your standard swallow tail. They look and function like a regular snowboard. It therefore makes them a great choice for people who want a pow deck, but a) cant afford $600 for a quiver board and don't really get to play in anything more exotic than resort powder.

 

And remember, that's really all it is at the end of the day. You buy this as your second, third or fourth deck. If you can only buy one snowboard, and if you're not surfing massive lines every day, you really shouldn't be buying this one.

 

Some Decks to consider: Capita Charlie Slasher (mine arrived yesterday ); Rome Notch; Burton Fish; Burton Malolo; Arbor Abacus; Jones Hovercraft; Venture Storm; LibTech Banana Hammock; Nitro Slash.

 

Final Remarks on the Quiver:

 

hen I decided I was going to do this, I needed an arbitrary map, and I could think of nothing better than the Capita line to model it on. So I picked 6 categories and tried to squeeze the boards into those shapes. Obviously, it should be the other way around, but as I say, we are going from the general to the particular. I hope you understand lots of these decks cross over and it isn't quite so clear cut where to put them all the time (particularly for an idiot like me).

 

Ultimately I tried to give you some recommendations and ideas, but they are in the end generalisations. Really, the aim was to help you understand a bit about the different type of decks, and their function.

 

There's also a great deal of info and jargon in this, and maybe not all of it is apparent right yet, but if you are having trouble, read the next few posts and you should start to understand a bit more what i'm saying.

 

Finally, if you think I've said something wrong, or find it confusing, (or if you want to expand the recommendations) please do tell me. I want it to be relatively easy to follow, but I also want it to be relatively accurate... well, within the bounds of those qualifiers.

 

Thats the end of part 1.

[ippy 66]

Quote:

Pre-JARGON WATCH:
Edge and EFFECTIVE edge the edge is the side of your deck. The effective edge is how much of that edge actually makes contact with the snow while you're riding on your edge.
Washing: When riding on your edge, your board can slide out under your weight. So if youre on your heel edge, youll fall on your ass, and if you're on your front edge, it'll be on your face. You will usually fall uphill so it's not so bad. Its counterpart though is...
Catching an edge: When you are riding semi flat (with the base of the board on the snow rather than your edge), or shifting your weight between edges, the wrong edge can catch resulting in a spectacular tumble. Whereas in a wash you land towards the uphill part of the mountain, edge catches result in you flying DOWN the mountain... and it usually hurts.
Scorpion: A heavy fall usually involving you catching an edge and landing on your face, resulting in the board flying up behind you trying to smack you on the back of the head. They suck!
Charging: Going very fast down the hill usually through making very few turns/edge changes. You need a very stable board that can ride straight through all the bobbles and bumps if you do this and doesn't lose its stability. This technique is prone to catching edges )
Inserts: Where you screw in your bindings. This is not the same as:
contacts: the contact points are where the board grips into the snow. On a camber board this is usually just after the inserts and just before the board curves up. They are the point where your weight creates the maximum force on the edge. Raised contacts (on reverse camber boards) mean you are relying entirely on the edge which means you have less grip. And this is why reverse camber decks tend to wash.

STEP 2: SIZING YOUR DECK

On another site, we had this document (you can find them likely all over the net by the way) to help you find out what size board you want. Here's one I've stolen so you can work it for yourself. I hope it helps you to answer one of the most commonly asked questions people buying their first board have.

Now sizing your board is a personal and therefore complicated affair, there are a myriad of factors involved, but the general idea is that it goes by your WEIGHT not your height. If you see anyone mention that the size of your board should come to around your chin, ignore everything else they tell you.

If i had to describe the following table, I would say this is your all round size. Picture this then as the optimal size in conjunction with the deck you chose in the previous section to get the type of ride I suggested.

But keep this in mind:

The SPENSER principle:

When I was trying to buy my new board, Spenser (a user on another forum) made this point about the indoor FK:

He uses the 158 for his all mountain freestyle size (category 4), and was thinking of dropping the deck to a 152 or 154 (I believe) for a nice stable park deck (category 2). I however put the Indoor FK in category 3 (all resort decks).

None of this is incorrect, and you may be thinking "well, which one is it? 2, 3 or 4? And you would be misunderstanding the point I'm making. It can be ALL THREE depending on the size you go for. This is why people size up and size down all the time. It's also why even something in category 5 (freeride) like the BSOD can just as easily be put in category 4 or hell even category 2 if you like a nice aggressive park ride. You can tailor boards in a hundred different ways to get the precise ride you desire, and even decks you wouldn't even think of, can be turned into a completely different type of deck purely based on the act of sizing up or down.

The important thing to realise then is that size can play a crucial difference in tailoring your ride to get the precise performance you want from your deck. EVERYTHING is just a starting point at the end of the day, and that's why buying a snowboard is a more complicated business than it might seem initially.

To be on the safe side though, pick the deck style you want (you want category 3 by the way ), and find the size that puts you as near to smack bang in the middle of the weight limit on the following table. This way you'll likely get the type of ride suggested in the previous post without worrying that maybe you're making a mistake. So without further ado, here's the table.


What size board should you ride?

Html:

brd length        144    |     148     |    151      |     154     |     158     |    162     |    166    | lbs             65-115   |   75-125    |  95-145     |   115-165   |   130-180   |  140-190   |  160-210  | KG               29-52   |    34-56    |    43-65    |    52-75    |    58-81    |    63-86   |   72-95   | Feet'              5'    |     5'3"    |             |     5'6"    |     5'9"    |            |     6'    |

Now, take me for example. I weigh a cool 160lbs. As you can see, that gives me 4 options to choose from (though actually I can choose whatever the hell I like ).

Im at the heavy end of a 154 which will allow me to move towards pressing it easier and throwing it around a bit more. I'm also at the extreme low weight end for a 166 (which I'd be a little reluctant to get on), but am somewhere between a 158 and a 162 for a middle ride. This bears out with my own personal experience of riding my sierrascope. It's a 156, and it certainly took the deck more towards the all resort/park side of things rather than the all resort/all mountain side. It had stability issues at speed, and tended to wash, but to offset this, it also pressed like a champ

A Brief note on Reverse camber:

In truth, I genuinely believe that when you factor in reverse camber into all this, things start getting even more murky.

You're riding with less effective edge and this creates stability issues when you're charging. The strange thing is, I often see people talking about sizing down these decks, and to this day I don't understand why. As I say, if you're all about park, sure, size them down. But if you want to have a versatile jack of all trades deck, if anything you should be sizing these decks up a smidgen (just a centimetre or 2, nothing huge), or at least keep them at your exact size.

Sizing down means 1. Less area to weight which alters the flex pattern and hence stability; and 2. Less effective edge which also alters stability. This is why reverse camber decks tend to wash. They aren't really built for grip in the first place, but when you factor in that people think they should size down on these decks, it naturally pushes you a little down that category list a bit.

You know what they say about people with big feet... big shoes

Here is an an invaluable piece of advice someone gave me, and I'm going to pass it on verbatim (not least because it means I can stop typing ):

Quote:

Men size 8 to 10. Waist width between 24.8 and 25.5
Men size 10-11.5 25.3 to 26cm
Men 12 and larger 25.9cm+

Reverse Camber Boards: I have found that waist width is not as important on these boards for a couple reasons: 1. They do not offer the same level of turning performance than a board like the custom x. Therefore riders are more prone to slide tuns instead of carve turns on extreme edge angles. 2. You see than most reverse camber boards are wider than their cambered counterparts. In summary, a rockered board with 25.5 waist works for many more shoe sizes, like 8 to 11.

If a guy has a low profile or small footprint boot, like a burton ion, you can assume it is 1 size smaller. Ex: size 11 ion= size 10 32 boot.

If you're below a size 10 US, chances are you're going to fit almost every board out there. But we don't all have pixie feet, some of us have proper feet, and this is a little outline of what kind of waist widths those people are looking at. That being said, understand this really is the vaguest of guidelines. If you have larger feet and can, ask someone to measure the board at the INSERTS and including stance options to check for possible overhang.

Anyway, i think that's pretty much everything on the second part, so hopefully we can pop on to the other bits now. I possibly wrote a great deal more than I expected... not exactly a surprise though.

STEP 3: THE MIRACLE OF FLEX


This doesn't need to be a long section you'll be relieved to hear. We have covered a great deal of it in the second part on size.

If you nip back to the previous section, you'll see I've given each board a flex rating. It's pretty arbitrary and is only meant as a GENERAL guide. But flex really plays an impact on the category I shunted each board into, so that's why it's there. The thing is though, if you paid attention to the section on size you'll have maybe learned how weight works to alter the flex on your deck.

What could be a stiff board for someone at 140lbs and could feel like a 7 on the scale (and thus an all mountain freestyle), could, on a person weighing 170lbs, feel like a 4 or even 5 (and putting it in the realms of a park deck (cat 2) or an all resort frestyle deck (cat 3).

Flex is almost entirely impacted by you. The flex I experience on my deck will not necessarily correlate to the flex you experience with your deck. Even if its the same size and length deck. Our weight will modify the 'feel' of the flex of the deck, and like everything else, its rating (which sometimes feels like it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer), is only there as a starting point. Look at a flex rating as nothing more than a general guide on how the board is supposed to perform based on someone smack bang in the middle of the weight length for the deck... and even then assume it's not the full picture because it's still going to feel different to you.

Another thing which may alter the feel of the deck (as someone just pointed out to me) is LEVERAGE. Stick your bindings in the nearest insert to the centre of the deck and it's going to feel pretty solid. Move them out further towards the nose and tail and you'll feel it's a little softer. Simple applied mechanics and all that Of course this is offset by how much power you can comfortably transfer to your legs, but if you're riding a short board and you're a big guy, or you're a short guy riding a long board, well yeah, it's definitely something else to consider.

Torsional Flex:

A subtitle, but I really wanted to mention this without getting too technical about it. What we've been focussing on is the flex from tip to tail (longitudinal flex), torsional flex is the flex between the edges across the waist of the board. What does it do? Well it lets you twist the board across the waist to get on your edges. The general rule of thumb is that stiffer boards have less torsional flex than softer boards. There! that's that sorted out. More flex torsionally means more twisting and means sharper turns/edge shifting. Less torsional flex means more stability and control in longer turns. Obviously then, a freerider wants less torsional flex, and a park rat wants more.

That's pretty straightforward eh. But that's not why I mention it. I mention it for one very important reason: Women's boards almost ALWAYS have a softer torsional flex than their male counterpart decks (as well as a narrower waist width). So if you're a girl and you're thinking about getting on a boy's deck keep this in mind. It will likely feel a little stiffer edge to edge than a board specifically made for women. Obviously the whole width thing is probably a bigger factor, but I'm assuming you've got biggish feet and that's why you're even thinking about it, so I added this little addendum.

Final thoughts on flex and size::

I do want to emphasise though, that the general guideline is none the less USEFUL to help you understand what kind of board you're maybe getting if you relate it to the board length. If you're in the middle of the weight to size ratio, it's fairly likely that the flex will be reasonably close to the ratings given in the first section on board types (give or take .5 or so).

I Hope this is now starting to give you a much clearer picture on not only the starting point, but how to build around it to get EXACTLY the board you want even if it doesn't quite seem like the obvious choice. Naturally you can go into as much detail as you like to tailor your deck to the exact type of ride you want. But I appreciate this may confuse matters, so the absolute safest line is (assuming you can't test it) to look at the type of deck you want in section one and get on the size which puts you in (or as close to), the middle weight range for the size. Do that and you'll likely get the ride you want with the least hassle

[ippy 66]

STEP 4: THE BASE

 

There are effectively two types of base, and although you don't need to know how they're made I'll tell ya!:

 

Extruded Base:

 

Capita Stairmaster

 

[Tech]Extruded bases are made via a rapid process of melting polyethelene and then squeezing it out a press creating a thin film which is attached to the base of your deck.[/Tech]

 

Because of the speed of the process the molecules don't fuse and bind so well, so although it is cheaper (and quicker) to make on a massive scale, the result is less impact resistance, less water resistance, and finally, extruded bases have very poor wax absorption properties. They are however relatively cheap and easy to repair.

 

Sintered Base:

 

Capita Stairmaster Extreme

 

[Tech]Sintered bases on the other hand are created by a much slower low pressure melting process which fuses the molecules creating a more rigid, durable material out the other end.[/Tech]

 

This technique results in small microscopic gaps which absorbs, holds, and then ultimately release the wax while you ride. This creates a super fast, semi-frictionless surface. It also creates a much harder surface able to withstand a greater diversity of impacts and gouges. It is however more expensive to repair.

 

WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT TO YOU?

 

The reason I mention the base at all is because it is a significant decision for anyone thinking about buying their first deck. It's not just for the obvious reason of performance though, Sintered bases outperform extruded in every way. If it was a straight choice based on performance alone, sintered wins hands down: they're faster, they hold more wax, and they are less prone to core shots and taking serious damage. It's no contest. And don't be fooled by the conventional notion that park = extruded. It's not. Park, just like anywhere else on the mountain requires performance. No matter where you are on the mountain, sintered is better. So why is there even a debate here? It's pretty clear cut? :?

 

Well, naturally, no. It comes down to two other things: Cost and maintenance.

 

Sintered bases are obviously more expensive to manufacture, and because the technology and performance is usually more desired by advanced riders, a deck with a sintered base IS going to run at a premium compared to its comparable extruded deck (such as the stairmaster and stairmaster extreme above). Also if you're new, you probably don't exactly require a sintered base to fly off your baby jumps or slide on those big flat boxes in the park. Obviously you'll find a year or two down the line you'll be glad you grabbed a sintered deck, but then again in a year or twos time your snowboard might be down in your basement behind two years worth of crap never to be seen from again (kinda like my freebord and mini-mal).

 

So that leaves the big one:

 

Maintenance.

 

I've already mentioned one crucial thing: extruded bases are easier to damage, but they're also incredibly easy to fix. You can do it yourself.

 

Although sintered bases can be repaired in the same way, it's often a temporary fix. To really fix a decent gouge on sintered deck, you'll likely need someone to do it professionally for you. So very simply: Extuded bases are easy to damage but very easy to repair; Sintered bases are tough to damage, and more difficult to repair.

 

The second thing to consider though is WAXING.

 

If you want to hit the slopes without any bother, buy an extruded deck. They are really low maintenance. Give them a spray wax every now and again and you're good to go.

 

Sintered bases on the other hand EAT wax (or rather they leak it). The pores store the wax, and with contact with the snow at around the right temperature, the wax slowly releases out from those pores giving you that speedy awesome performance. The difference between an unwaxed sintered base and a waxed one is staggering. You simply cannot ride a sintered deck when it needs a wax, you'll just get really frustrated. Thus, they require a wax around every two or three days you go out. And not just a quick wax, no no, that's just a stopgap. They want a good solid proper hot wax. And this means one thing: SCRAPING. At 8am before your coffee, every 3 days at least. A sintered base requires a LOT more TLC.

 

So to summarise:

 

- If you're inherently lazy and want a low maintenance easy to bang about and repair, relatively cheap deck go with extruded.

- If on the other hand, you don't mind a bit of graft in the morning, don't mind spending a bit extra, and want the fastest, strongest performance from your base, go with a sintered base.

- If you want a REALLY high level of performance then go with a graphite infused base. But I'm not getting into that one!

 

[ippy 66]

think 4 should do it

 

Oh! and if people want to add other recommendations, or want to correct mine, i'd really appreciate that. i know my capita, bataleon, and never summer lines, i have a vague knowlegde of burtons line, but ride, rome, nitro, mervin, smoking, yes, elan, k2, jj et al are all pretty much off my radar.

[RobBright 35]

Also, buy bidings and board at the same time!

[Tex 3]

[Schneebored 0]

Nice work ippy. Agree with all you have written so far.

 

assume you will continue to cover All mountain directional/freeride?

[ippy 66]

yeah, its a bit of a stretch, but next three are:

 

1. Freeride all mountain rippers (i wanted to really make the all mountain freeride/all resort freestyle distinct). Was thinking of things like the titan, the t-rice/lando, the anthem, and of course the BlackSnowboardOfDeath and the midlife. Basically, your classic freeride directional chargers.

 

2. Pipe and big kicker decks. (this is the stretch because well, it kinda overlaps, but wanted to make a bit of a distinction between freeride sticks and directional twin type heavier duty freestyle sticks. I could throw this section into freeride, or the flexxier all resort freestyle sticks, but figured it didnt really fit in either very well (even though theres going to be a lot of overlap). This whole area is where im going to find it tricky to throw out recommendations because its just a bit too technical for me and im going to put stuff in the wrong section. For ideas, i was thinking probably the dannykass, the quiver killer, the NS premium (this would be one of those problem decks), the vapor... actually, maybe ill just steal last years goodwoood pipe winners to be on the safe side

 

3. Finally, pow sticks. Now how can you compare the fish with the malolo? but well, screw it, im not making swallow tails versus non swallow tail pow sticks. Instead ill focus on decks with a decent taper to them and lump them all in

[HelperElfMissy 42]

^ but but but

Shouldn't you stick this in the sections you reserved above???

[ippy 66]

yupyup, but this isnt the details, its just saying what im going to work on tomorrow.

 

The bits ive reseved are for things like flex, sizing, board shape, and bases (though technically im not sure what else i should really add about flex given that ive pretty much dumped the general flex in the quick details, other than maybe torsional flex and how that effects certain choices, particularly for women's boards). id like to also mention sidecuts and cores, but i feel that might be a bit overboard in details for a new person. Maybe ill mention things like magnatraction and vario though since theyre interesting.

 

The camber one is definitely going to need a post to itself because its one of the biggest questions out there, and it doesnt help that theres about 6 or so different types of camber right now.

 

So i'll try and outline my perspective on the pros and cons. And of course the big balancing act that every deck forces on you at the end of things.

 

I reckon that'll come in on the concluding remarks, and links to other sites. Basically, ive got a general idea, and its just a case of trying to make sure my info is relatively accurate, and theres enough recommendations out there for people to at least get a starting point in their research.

 

 

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Knowing what you want is half the battle.

 

We spent a bit of time arguing the toss in Kanda re: #3son buying a board (Reverse Cambered Burton Joystick) that was a little long - sort of came to eyebrow level. We got the point that it was a lot of board for a boy to handle and didn't need to be that long, but he was capable and growing fast. Seriously glad we persisted as he grew about 3 inches since then!

[panhead_pete 27]

Titan is getting my vote this season Ippy so that we have in common.

[Jynxx 4]

Good effort

I think it's a pretty general approach to buying a snowboard for noobs. Bit north America manufacturer and park rat orientated, but that's all right.

I would have put all 1, 2, 3 together and called it a freestyle/park board. Jib/butter/pipe can all be a rating under that.

Now that the distinction between freestyle and freeride is pretty much blurred, or crossed over, it really is a matter of terrain and stability under speed.

 

1) All mountain or Park : on or off piste : Is it groomed or not.

 

Some boards handle pipe well whether it's freestyle board or whatever. Some boards don't handle cruds, ice, powder well. Bit like comparing a 2WD and a 4WD car.

Granted that people can treat the whole mountain as a "Big Park" and jib off things , probably we can't even distinguish the two.

 

2) Big mountain or All mountain.

 

Shall we make a classification like that? Big mountain for dedicated big lines, and all mountain more like resort board.

 

3) Mechanics of the board

 

Which makes me think, all there is to compare between boards.

 

a) Camber

personal choice

 

Effective edge length.

Where the edge contact points are on the snow. Because we have all sorts of combo on the camber and rocker, there's no point in comparing board lengths.

 

c) Side curve

This will effect a) too.

 

d) Flex

Your weight and riding style

 

 

 

Like you are not me, I'm coming from preferring all terrain mountain, hitting natural pipes and small kickers. Don't jib or rail, and forget buttering.

 

 

 

 

[ippy 66]

I think one of the things ive found in my travels in snowboard research is that theres so much information, often contradictory, and so much variation in riders (from things like weight, to stance, to style) that it feels like you cant grasp onto anything solid. Sometimes, and i guess the purpose of this guide, is to smooth over the vast complexity, just to generalise a bit and let the new person pull at least something meaningful from what is to them, a wall of sound.

 

I actually love your post, (i wish youd give me recommendations though ) because a lot of what you talk about (particularly on the issues of fine tuning) was going to be brought up in teh concluding remarks. Take for instance a guy i know from a different forum: he rides the indoor FK as his resort cruiser and all round park stick (154), but instead of buying a different deck he actually has a second indoor FK for hitting back country kickers (160). What is impacting that, is his weight to board ratio, the effective edge length and his different style. Its technically the same deck, and the rather comedic point i guess is that its not in the actual category i put it in.

 

Its not his jack of all trades deck at all. in the one case its his all round park stick and borderline jib board (though he also has a horrorscope for that), and in the other its his big jump all mountain deep pow freestyle stick.

 

But man, thats exactly the point youre making, and will be one of the big points ill be making at the end, but to someone new to the sport, its miserable.

 

One of my friends used to tell me the story of his Physics class. He'd go in and theyd teach him how the world works. The next week he'd go in and theyd say "i know we told you last week that this was how the world works, but well, we lied. We kinda simplified it a bit... heres how it really works". He said they did that every week to him until he just dropped out and did fine art instead

 

I think the most important thing is to keep it simple and give people some ideas to grab on to. As i mentioned (or maybe i edited it out, i forget), i was going to talk about sidecuts and cores, but felt it was kinda getting to a level of complexity that no new person to the sport really needs. I want to keep the discussion of 90/10 (90% rider, 10% gear) to the end in a way, just to round it up a bit.

 

I'd also honestly hate to put jib, park, all resort freestyle (deliberately named it that to give a bit of space and keep things a bit closer to the marketing language instead of the colloquial common sense term - which is much closer to 'all resort' than 'all mountain'), and all mountain freestyle in the same category, i think that is one of the primary areas of confusion and leads to people saying "but i dont like park, so i shouldnt be on a freestyle board" when the sheer array of decks and flexes, and camber options is massive.

 

I cant even conceive of how for instance, you could put a tapered directional pipe deck like the food court gangsta/quiver killer in the same bracket as the K2-www, (but against that, i dont see the claim that the evil twin or stairmaster extreme would make a sick pipe deck as being too radical either). Theres a lot of overlap for sure... and also a lot of divergence. I wouldnt like to hit the pipe on any regular size (as in my standard size - 156) reverse camber just because basing off my own experience, the chatter is rough, and the edge hold up those surfaces is pretty gnarly. I wouldnt feel confident that im not going to wash and thats going to make me less hesitant to get out of the pipe. I also reckon its not a coincidence i picked two cambered park decks for pipe, even if they are a softer flex than the quiver killer. But that might be out dated beliefs.

 

Either way, hopefully my imaginary new guy isnt reading this post until he read the (completed) guide (its nowhere near finished, i had to cut it off because of work, but ill try and get at least the rest of the quiver part up by tomorrow and maybe a nice simple size chart for both regular board sizes and for shoe sizes ---> waist widths. (again, not the most accurate measurement, but gives a roundabout outline they can use). I say I hope they arent reading this bit yet just because this is the muddying of the waters i really want this thread to be, but i want them getting a very general start off point first.

 

I think really the only thing to mention is the big mountain/all mountain distinction you raised. Snowboarding is this weird industry in that its technical language is often played around with and diluted. When a new person hears the phrase 'all mountain' for instance, the idea is really the resort (park, groomers, blackruns, trees etc). When someone with a bit more knowledge sees a stick marketed as an 'all mountain', what they understand is that it means back country and resort. Theres a disconnect between the language, and thats really why i threw in the phrase 'all resort' instead of the more normal 'all mountain' (which is really much more what youd want a custom for, whereas all mountain (at least freestyle) youd probably rather have the custom-x). I reserved the phrase all mountain precisely for those freeride, and BackCountry freestyle sticks because its usually the language that manufacturers use to market their deck. So the aim was to reconnect that language to the product descriptions to make the new person navigate the nuance of the language a bit easier.

 

Anyway, long post to say "i completely agree with you, but heres why im not going to make those points inside the guide until the final thoughts bit". Sometimes you have to just simplify stuff, even when you know its not quite the full picture

[ippy 66]

Actually, you have convinced me that maybe i need to link them though.

 

I think it doesnt diminish the point if i bracketed the jib/park/all resort/all mtn freestyle under the general category of Freestyle. It would also then make sense to throw the next category up to be the big kicker/pipe/backcountry freestyle sticks up next just to complete it.

 

This poses a huge issue though for freeride, because i really wonder with c2, camrock, r+c, and even TBT, how hybrid cambers can really be called freeride sticks... but now im confusing myself! Back to simplifying. Most of C2 is going in freeride unless its a twin/directional twin There, thats how ill separate them arbitrarily

[Jynxx 4]

Cheers, man. I think we understand each other, here.

Yeah, the language and the categories used for marketing. It's like going into a music shop and seeing all the different names to describe the music ...

I always wondered if Jib/ Rail board can be a specific tool. The edges has to withstand the impact (something you would like in rocky outcrops, freeride situation) and doesn't catch.

When a newby sees it, I think your description is the way to understand the language. He/she is not going to get a directional, less side curve board to learn how to turn/link turns. They are going to slide the tail to turn, so a buttery, short effective edge board which comes under the freestyle cat is what they buy. The only thing they would be asking (if they are inclined to do their research) is Should I get a Rocker, Camber or Cam-Rock board... and most likely, it's gonna be a Rocker or Cam-Rock accordng to the manufacturing trend.

Soon, Camber boards might be classed as old school.

I started on a camber, true twin, center stance duck and I still like twin boards. I still ride duck and no way that's gonna change. I don't ride switch much these days, but if I buy a directional twin, that will change. So here again, the style can dictate the classification. People who rides switch or not. Twin or Directional.

If you come from a skateboard background, like slopestyle, and somepeople are not into that. Freeride or Park

And the off-piste all terrain/all condition Big Mountain and the resort All Mountain board.

And add Powder board to that.

 

So as for classification scheme goes, I don't know what's best. But I'd like to see it this way for use specific.

[ippy 66]

I still think the best deck to learn technique on is camber. Im 100% on this... well, 85% The other 15% says "but if all camber boards vanish and no one rides them again, what the hell was the point of learning how to draw pin like carves in the snow?"

 

I still think the best snowboard for a beginner is:

 

the right recommended size for your weight.

CAMBER

soft-medium flex (4.5ish even though we know that flex ratings are as bizarre as everything else in snowboarding)

Low maintenance

Twin

relatively cheap (just in case) and with good resale value

 

After your first year or so and once you can do a bit of carving though, get on a custom. Or if you think you can handle a bit more of a stiff ride straight away, get on a custom.

 

Basically, a custom is the best type of board for anyone to learn technique out there. Its a little less forgiving initially, its probably going to spank you a bit, but once you start picking up a bit of speed, that thing will take you anywhere you want to go.

 

Though im reticent to advise them of that, because i know the Custom flying V is just going to be more of a fun ride at the end of the day So yeah, reverse camber is the first port of call for most beginners, so in that regard id really strongly advise them to size up a notch.

 

As for the hybrid camber. Right now youre only really seeing that on higher end decks, but when they start throwing that on cheaper decks then yeah, camber is probably gone except for "speciality" (pro) riding. OOOOOh! must dash, or im late for work Trend is definitely to reverse and partricularly last year, hybrid.

 

And yeah, i like the big mountain/all mountain distinction because its much more common sense language than the current language used.

[muikabochi 208]

Interesting read.

 

Side note, I wish I had as much time at work.

[panhead_pete 27]

Originally Posted By: ippy

And yeah, i like the big mountain/all mountain distinction because its much more common sense language than the current language used.

Yes please

Just like the websites for the board manufacturers there is almost too much here for me to digest

[ippy 66]

part 1: Types of deck is now finished. Added some outlines on freestyle/freeride distinctions and went off on one a bit talking about the freeride sticks Ah well, relatively speaking they covered about the same amount of text as the freestyle sticks.

[Jynxx 4]

Looking good.

SJ-whoever's there, what do you reckon about posting this on the equipment review section?

[ippy 66]

moved to the front page

[SnowJapan 178]

ippy thanks for the posts!

Can you tell me what message you are getting if you can't edit them?

There seems to be something going on with some members with edits would like to try and get to the bottom of it.

Cheers

[ippy 66]

No message at all. It just doesn't seem to allow the option to edit my previous posts in the thread. I just assumed there must be some kind of time limit before posts are no longer alterable. It's no bother, but would obviously prefer to have the info in one place instead of scattered around the thread

[SnowJapan 178]

A bit caught up in things at the moment but will look into that for you. Thanks.