veronica 2 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Quote: I've found very few things in Japan to be done in effective and logical ways... This quote from Mr Go Native in the election thread I thought was interesting. For the most part I agree. But why? With all Japans success in business, surely there was a lot of effectiveness and logic going on there. So if that was the case, what happened? Link to post Share on other sites
Oyuki kigan 0 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Is 'Tobashi' logical and effective? Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 What might tobashi be? Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 depends what you consider to be logical and effective? Got my 12,000 today from the city - was a very logical process, went and got ID checked, then checked against a register of people who signed up to collect it, got handed the money pre-sorted and walked out within 10 minutes. However, I had to talk to three different people to get it sorted. logical - yes effective - yes/no waste of man power - yes Link to post Share on other sites
gerard 6 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 You often hear that complaint from people who come to Japan with no experience in their own countries and then they complain about the bureaucracy of ... say the public school system or something like that in Japan. The thing is, there's just as much crazy bureaucracy in their own countries, if not more. They just don't know it because their first job is in Japan. That's not the case with GoNative though. I don't know where he was coming from. One thing I can say though... I've been dealing with city hall, immigration and other Japanese institutions a lot recently and as frustrating as it can be, I'd much rather deal with the government in Japan than in Canada. Canada's more **** than Japan when it comes to bureaucracy. .... Actually, more accurately, I should say that I trust the Japanese system more than in Canada. (touch wood) Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 You need to look up Toyota. Or more importantly, the Toyota Production System. That's what we call "just in time" logistics for production. Some banks are trying to implement this. Link to post Share on other sites
gerard 6 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 But yeah, I can definitely think of examples where Japan doesn't seem very logical... Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 It's effective. You get the bill laid flat on your table and pay when you leave. None of this getting the waiter's attention, asking for the bill, wait for it to come, give him your card, wait for him to come back, sign it, wait for him to (not)check the signature, return card and then get up to leave. Logical too. Link to post Share on other sites
BagOfCrisps 24 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 ...and yes no tip/service charge bollocks either. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 And petrol stations. Look at them freezing like brass monkeys as the fill your tank and you site nice n snugg in your car. Logical. Effectively pleasant. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 But honestly, the banking system in Japan is really wank. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Originally Posted By: thursday But honestly, the banking system in Japan is really wank. it really is. When I came back here I went to Mizuho Bank to open an account, spoke to one guy and he was happy as larry, told me no probs and asked for my Gaij card. i explained that i was on my way to apply for one, not to worry he said, when you get the certificate that says you have applied come back in and we'll open the account. Fine I thought, went in the same branch the next day, got somebody else, cue sucking of teeth, conversing with others and finally told that because I was a foreigner they can't give me an ATM card (which I knew to be BS as I lived here b4) but they were able to give me a bankbook which I could only use at the branch to take out my money......FAT FOOKING GOOD THAT WOULD DO ME!!! Cue me shoutng and swearing and storming out. Link to post Share on other sites
Sciclone 2 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I don't think it matters where you go, bureaucracy is always at odds with common sense. Eg. My mother was brought to Australia with her family when she was 3. She has since lived here all her life, got a tax file number, gets social security etc, yet when she needed to apply for her passport, they had make up a whole new record for her, because to the immigration department she didn't exist. (they said they've never had that before!). On the Australian customs declaration form, they have "Do you have any alcohol/tobacco products to declare?". When we first came back from Japan, we ticked yes (we had brought some local wines back for gifts), then the guy is hassling us because he wants to see our cigarettes (none of us smoke), because we ticked the box.. Its on the same freakin line.. Seperate the questions.... Also, to get through Customs at Sydney (truly horrid) it took us 30 minutes to get through Customs only. In Japan, we got off the plane, got our luggage, went through customs, saw the accom desk at Narita 2 and were on the Airport Limousine bus with in 25 mins. Much more efficient. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Originally Posted By: Sciclone I don't think it matters where you go, bureaucracy is always at odds with common sense. Eg. My mother was brought to Australia with her family when she was 3. She has since lived here all her life, got a tax file number, gets social security etc, yet when she needed to apply for her passport, they had make up a whole new record for her, because to the immigration department she didn't exist. (they said they've never had that before!). On the Australian customs declaration form, they have "Do you have any alcohol/tobacco products to declare?". When we first came back from Japan, we ticked yes (we had brought some local wines back for gifts), then the guy is hassling us because he wants to see our cigarettes (none of us smoke), because we ticked the box.. Its on the same freakin line.. Seperate the questions.... Also, to get through Customs at Sydney (truly horrid) it took us 30 minutes to get through Customs only. In Japan, we got off the plane, got our luggage, went through customs, saw the accom desk at Narita 2 and were on the Airport Limousine bus with in 25 mins. Much more efficient. this happened to my mum's cousin. She has been in Australia for the last 40-50 years but she wasn't fully registered as a citizen even although she has held down various jobs, paid her taxes etc.....when she eventually went down to immigration they were at a loss as to why she was half on/off the grid, they just said she'd been there so long that they'd give her it with no more Q's asked! Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Sure plenty of things run reasonably well in this country even when they aren't always the most efficient or logical. Often I think though they could only do it in a country like this where the populace have been so conditioned to just accept things the way they are and to rarely question why they are that way. To me at least living in this society is a little like what it must have been like to live in Aus in the 50's and 60's. Or maybe that's just because I live in a small country town in Hokkaido. I would assume bustling mega cities like Tokyo and Osaka are considerably different. Well at least I'd hope they are! Link to post Share on other sites
bobby12 0 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 difficult to compare uk/japan on this but i think many things in japan are efficient and logical. there is also a truckload of the opposite though. generally i think life is easier and smoother in japan though, in terms of getting from a-b, and getting stuff done. quality of life would be a totally different story though. Link to post Share on other sites
@tokyo 14 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I find quite a few things in Japan to be too logical that I almost want them not to be. Link to post Share on other sites
Oyuki kigan 0 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Tobashi (to make fly, to throw in the air) is a money-managing technique for companies to remove crappy debts or bad investments from their books, by having a sussidiary B7buy 'them. I'm not quite sure how it works, and neither do most economists. Another illogical thing a friend pointed out Japan forgot the meaning of the 'A' and 'M' in most ATMs. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan Tobashi (to make fly, to throw in the air) is a money-managing technique for companies to remove crappy debts or bad investments from their books, by having a sussidiary B7buy 'them. I'm not quite sure how it works, and neither do most economists. Another illogical thing a friend pointed out Japan forgot the meaning of the 'A' and 'M' in most ATMs. haha yeah they have. I got caught out by Japan's wacky bank system yesterday again. Coming home from a beach aprty with about 700 yen left in my pocket i went to get somethinmg to eat only to realise i had no(t a lot of) money....go to the ATM.....machine says no!! It was past 9.30pm on a sunday so of course you can't take money out!!! Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I hope you spent that on 3 cans of beer. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 err....no....I spent it on an onigiri and a cup noodle! Link to post Share on other sites
ShinyDiscoBall 2 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 The 7-11 bank atms are open 24 hours aren't they? Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver Originally Posted By: Oyuki kigan Japan forgot the meaning of the 'A' and 'M' in most ATMs. haha yeah they have. I got caught out by Japan's wacky bank system yesterday again. Coming home from a beach aprty with about 700 yen left in my pocket i went to get somethinmg to eat only to realise i had no(t a lot of) money....go to the ATM.....machine says no!! It was past 9.30pm on a sunday so of course you can't take money out!!! That is just DAFT! ATMs should be accesible 24/7, that is what they were designed for. Obviously those contained WITHIN venues that have closed are not, but 'holes in the wall' should be good all hours. It peeves me that our banks charge a fee for using an ATM, they brought them in to cut the costs of wages paid to tellers in actual branches, and as time has rolled on the branches have closed leaving just a few face to face contact options for people. Now they are CHARGING us to use the ATMs....is that NOT what an account keeping fee is for? Link to post Share on other sites
sanjo 2 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 As far as I can think in the area I live, Mamabear, there aren't any "holes in the walls" outside buildings. They are all inside somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Do you think that has something to do with weather conditions? EG in Perth they are rarely 'exposed', they have a little bit of eaves/roof/verandah over them, so if it was raining the person taking out the cash would not get wet...but they are open to the elements. Maybe due to snowy conditions they would not withstand the elements. Link to post Share on other sites
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