joshnii 2 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 The roads were cheaper, not free, and for those with an installed ETC. It is hardly the same as saying the roads will be free to use at any time by anyone. There are more driving routes in Japan than Tokyo to Nagoya. Big city thinking there I think. Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 But it was a pilot scheme, wasnt it? Have driven to sleeper villages and towns around Kanto, Chubu and Southern Tohoku and still prefer to go by train as the roads were not direct enough or there were traffic jams. Moreover, who is going to pay for the upkeep of these roads once they become free? Link to post Share on other sites
joshnii 2 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Originally Posted By: RobBright But it was a pilot scheme, wasnt it? Right.... so what? Originally Posted By: RobBright Have driven to sleeper villages and towns around Kanto, Chubu and Southern Tohoku and still prefer to go by train as the roads were not direct enough or there were traffic jams. One fine example..... but one of countless millions. I know of times I would use the expressway over a train when I would do the reverse now. Just another one example. Originally Posted By: RobBright Moreover, who is going to pay for the upkeep of these roads once they become free? Don't know. But that's not really got much to do with people using train less has it? Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Originally Posted By: joshnii Originally Posted By: RobBright But it was a pilot scheme, wasnt it? Right.... so what? People knew about the scheme but as far as I remember there was no rush of people going out to buy ETC tags to get the discounted rates were there? Also if the roads do become free won't there be some pretty irate ETC owners wanting their money back from the tags. Originally Posted By: joshnii Originally Posted By: RobBright Have driven to sleeper villages and towns around Kanto, Chubu and Southern Tohoku and still prefer to go by train as the roads were not direct enough or there were traffic jams. One fine example..... but one of countless millions. I know of times I would use the expressway over a train when I would do the reverse now. Just another one example. Please do give us an example of a long distance journey then. If you had read both of my posts I am only talking about long distance journeys. I already said that shorter journeys would be affected. Originally Posted By: joshnii Originally Posted By: RobBright Moreover, who is going to pay for the upkeep of these roads once they become free? Don't know. But that's not really got much to do with people using train less has it? Yes it does if train tickets are taxed. which I don't know if they are or aren't really as can assume that this could go higher to fund for the upkeep. Link to post Share on other sites
DumbStick 13 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I would guess that "short journeys" make up a considerable amount of cash for the train companies. Quote: People knew about the scheme but as far as I remember there was no rush of people going out to buy ETC tags to get the discounted rates were there? There sure was! They couldn't make the things quick enough.... I had to wait a while to get mine and know a fair number of people who were the same. Link to post Share on other sites
big-will 7 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 You missed that did you Rob? There was a huge rush on for the ETC machines when the discounts were put into place. I don't know numbers, but you obviously didn't see the news round abouts then. I have seen plenty of pieces on the news as well of the big effect the new pricing has had on lots of tourism destinations. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Originally Posted By: RobBright Moreover, who is going to pay for the upkeep of these roads once they become free? In Japan, the popular toll roads and the (car) taxpayer heavily subsidize the less popular ones. Its obvious when you see all the long tunnels on the Hokuriku with two or three cars a minute going through them, if that. The tolls are nowhere near enough. A lot of the highways should never have been built, but since they were, its silly to create economic barriers to people using them. It was public debt, i.e., the people that built them. Most of the "future tolls" never materialized, just as any sensible projection would have said. All the regional airports were built with false projections of demand too. For popular roads like the Tomei etc., some degree of congestion charging/disincentive is quite possibly required. But Tomei users should not have to pay for Mickey-Mouse Highway built by bent-as-ferk inaka politicians. That is the reality at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites
bobby12 0 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Blame the LDP as they are the cause of the unnecessary airports and highways that were a kind of money laundering exersize to sipher money into their own pockets. The corruption here disgusts me, and the way the public are so incredibly naive to it despite some scandal being on the news every week. The DJP seem to be trying to reduce this but what I think will happen is just different players will be involved - same sxxt different party name. When Yasuo Tanaka was Nagano mayor in early 2000s he opposed to dodgy dam building and stood up to the construction companies. He now has his own little party and he got elected somewhere in Hyogo-ken. I reckon (hope) he is one to watch for the future. Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 Yes you must have missed that Rob. There was a scramble to pick up ETC units with the introduction of the 1000 yen weekend thing, everywhere was sold out soon after they got new stock in. Link to post Share on other sites
klingon 10 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 In between the commercials I have just been watching a program explaining about the expressways. My less than great Japanese means I didn't get 100% of it, but here's what I think they were saying. When the first expressway was made, the money came from the sekai ginko (World Bank?). Only a few people could drive then, the rich, and so they decided to charge to pay back the cost of making the road. The idea was to make them free once it was paid back. Eventually it was paid off in 1990 (?), but by then other expressways had been built and that was being paid for basically by charging people to use them. If there are no new expressways made, and usage continues as it is now, then it will be 2050 before all the costs are paid off. Though new ones are always being built, so that would basically get pushed back further and further. Right now, 31 oku en (?) is what is still owed to pay off the costs of making and running the expressways. The new guys have promised that they will make them free by 2012. They will do this by making them free and paying off the 31 oku-whatever through taxes. Argument being that even people who don't use the expressways themselves in effect do with the delivery of goods etc and so everyone benefits. Something like that anyway! Wish my Japanese was better! Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Originally Posted By: muikabochi Yes you must have missed that Rob. There was a scramble to pick up ETC units with the introduction of the 1000 yen weekend thing, everywhere was sold out soon after they got new stock in. apologies then. but my point still stands. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Your goods n shit is covered by consumption tax. Taxing petrol more would make more sense. Those who don't drive don't pay the petrol tax. Pretty ill thoughtout, but what the hell, Aso needed kicking. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I guess that must be "cho" of yen, not "okus". An oku is one hundred million, which for yen is about a million USD. A cho is a trillion (twelve zeros), 10,000 times an oku. One trillion yen is about ten billion USD. We're getting well beyond the scale of comprehension at this point! Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 1,0000,0000 - 100,000,000 1,0000,0000,0000 - 1,000,000,000,000 A lot of money! Link to post Share on other sites
grungy-gonads 54 Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I'll take the bottom right one please. Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 On the news just now that Hokkaido will be the first area to enjoy 0 yen expressways. Come on Niigata/Nagano! Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 ...seems like they're talking spring next year Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 good. Now my next summer trip will be a bit cheaper Link to post Share on other sites
pie-eater 207 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Bit unfair on other areas doing it like that isn't it. Hey I want my free expressway! Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 instead of dillying dallying about, get on with it. Link to post Share on other sites
TheOriginalMyoko 0 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 or maybe juuuuust squeeze in a bit more cash before upholding the promise Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: muikabochi On the news just now that Hokkaido will be the first area to enjoy 0 yen expressways. Come on Niigata/Nagano! Kyushu too, by the sounds. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 It also sounds like they're going to tax booze by alcohol content, so cheaper (real) beer at the expense of those fake ones that taste rank! Link to post Share on other sites
bobby12 0 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 nice one DJP. however there may be higher priority issues out there methinks. getting rid of the 3 year limit on pension refunds is my personal favourite. ;-) Link to post Share on other sites
yoroshiku onegai shimasu 2 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Out of interest what is the reasoning for that 3 year limit? Link to post Share on other sites
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