brit-gob 9 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 but actually you are probably to some extent right. Remember of course also that "resorts" are made up of people and it will depend on who's in charge etc. Link to post Share on other sites
stemik 14 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: Birdman Have come in late on this topic, but here are my observations. Hakuba needs some basic forward thinking to cater to an increasing overseas visitor numbers. The ticketing system, in particular the Happy Seven passes, need to be able to be used as a single ticket which can be used at any resort at any time of the day, including multiple places on the same day. At the moment, a voucher needs to be cashed in each day at the resort you wish to ski at, and then you are locked in to that resort for the whole day.This is the biggest complaint i hear from visitors.Surely the resorts can work together to come up with a single all mtn pass. Hakuba's other main problem is with transport between the various resorts. I guess we have all been spoilt by the system at Niseko. Once again it will take co-operation between the resorts to come up with a reliable and timely inter resort service. There are some big money plans for Hakuba. Whether these plans come to fruition will depend on the local companies playing the game. To put it into perspective...Niseko's skier numbers these days are predominantly visitors from overseas. Hakuba's predominant visitors are locals, by a huge margin.As with Japanese culture, the locals will not complain, so why would the companies do anything to change. As overseas visitors increase in Hakuba (maybe)things may start to happen. Some good points Birdman Let me explain the ticketing system. Initially the ticketing system was introudced without thinking about foreign customers - due to the fact there were hardly any. The Japanese skier usually goes skiing to Hakuba for a couple of days at time. It is very difficult to take a week holiday to go skiiing in Japan. With this in mind the resorts in the Hakuba Valley (13 in all) had to compete against each other to get these 2 days. They did not want to dilute the lift ticket sales with other resorts. Now the foreign tourist has come along and would like to ski at the different resorts in the valley for usally a week or more. 1. Most tickets in Hakuba are electronic. The resorts do not have the same ticket gates and the same electronic system. Many of the resorts are in contracts with the large electronic companies on 2 to 3 year service contracts. When these finish then they will disccus more co-operation. 2. Hakuba Alpen Resort tickets - covers Happo/Iwatake/Tsugaike these tickets can be used on the same day. So you can ski 3 resorts on one day - all connected by shuttle bus. Things will change but will not happen over night. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: Birdman To put it into perspective...Niseko's skier numbers these days are predominantly visitors from overseas. Hakuba's predominant visitors are locals, by a huge margin. That's not right about Niseko is it? I'd imagine that it is still well short of half from overseas. I guess the o/s people spend by far the most money per head though. Based on peoples' oversensitivity to the gaijin species in Japan, my guess would be 30% of all lift tickets sold for all three resorts. GN? MikePow? Link to post Share on other sites
sanjo 2 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Out of interest, is the number of Japanese ski/snowboard visitors to Niseko increasing or decreasing? Link to post Share on other sites
stemik 14 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: MikePow Originally Posted By: Fattwins The domestic market is in decline, but if anyone believes that just opening up off piste skiing is the way to fix it, then that is just as narrow minded as the ski resorts. There are many things I would fix first before just opening up terrain. Definitely. Like lifts with covers for starters. Lift covers - why none in Hakuba? The reason is that Hakuba is subjected to heavy winds, these will close the access chairlifts a lot sooner than at present if using lift covers Link to post Share on other sites
sanjo 2 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Mind block - why would that be the case stemik? Link to post Share on other sites
stemik 14 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: Fattwins All lifts should have safty bars. As a father I dont want my kid falling off of a lift. Japanese safety standards only ski lifts that are detached need to have safety bars.....incredible Link to post Share on other sites
stemik 14 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: sanjo Mind block - why would that be the case stemik? the wind pushing against the covers unmind block? Link to post Share on other sites
sanjo 2 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Partially. Would it make that much of a difference? And if that's the case, why do other places that have strong winds (I can think of Kagura off-hand) have them? Link to post Share on other sites
stemik 14 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 not sure to be honest - that just the official line.....but there arent any at all in the Hakuba Valley so just could be true Link to post Share on other sites
pie-eater 207 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 $$$ may have something to do with it too! Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 the hooded lifts are so much more comfortable. You can warm your body up for another freezing descent. Link to post Share on other sites
stemik 14 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 maybe - but dont forget many of these resorts were competiting against each other in the bubble, so one having a cover might do better than one not. but none around at all. Link to post Share on other sites
long-haired freaky person 0 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Does anyone choose a resort over another because they have a covered lift? Link to post Share on other sites
stemik 14 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: long-haired freaky person Does anyone choose a resort over another because they have a covered lift? if you are coming for the weekend...and its in a cold snap then maybe.. Link to post Share on other sites
long-haired freaky person 0 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Suppose so, I sure wouldn't though. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I would choose a covered lift over a non-covered one on the same resort. Same for the gondola over the open chairs. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: Jynxx ... display only one way of (namely your way of) comprehending my statement I am sorry I cannot read your mind, if I could, I would know what you mean, I can only interpret your statements from the words you use. Is that such a problem? If I misinterpret, please explain, but don't need to get antsy. Originally Posted By: Jynxx If the Japanese resorts are totally relying on the foreign market, it is a mistake, Do you realize that. You sound like the Japanese economy relies on tourism from abroad. Your interpretation of what I said, and FWIW I think a couple of others here agree with me that they are very much dependent on foriegn income because the local clientelle bubble has bust, that means they either find other sources of "punters" or go under. Originally Posted By: Jynxx This hire successful resort management people Assumption being foreigners... Huh, Sorry, no comprehend this bit. Originally Posted By: Jynxx I don't know what makes you an expert in tourism But you are happy to put me down because my comments are from a gaigin. As a tourism operator, I have a reasonable understanding of basic tourism economics. Visitor numbers and "spend per head per day" are important things. If, for the snow resorts, these are BOTH dependent on the local clientelle, then the resort is doomed. If the resort is prepared to stay ahead of the game, invcesting in infrastructure and the people to make it work for them (such as the menus and staff with English that I mentioned before) they willprobably capture a slice of the longer staying and bigger spending gaigin market. Link to post Share on other sites
Rag-Doll 0 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: stemik Originally Posted By: sanjo Mind block - why would that be the case stemik? the wind pushing against the covers unmind block? Not sure about this. the hooded quads (with the hood down) being smooth and curved might actually be less wind resistant than an unhooded quad with four punters sitting on it - don't know for sure, just seems like it might be that way. Of course if the hood is open then it is a whole different ball game. On the ticket thing - joint tickets really only make sense if you can ski between the resorts. How many people would really bother shuttling between resorts during the day? Not many surely. Against that you have all the added admin and set up costs and systems costs to standardise the arrangement, not to mention standardising the ticket prices. Link to post Share on other sites
stemik 14 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: The Gimp Originally Posted By: stemik Originally Posted By: sanjo Mind block - why would that be the case stemik? the wind pushing against the covers unmind block? On the ticket thing - joint tickets really only make sense if you can ski between the resorts. How many people would really bother shuttling between resorts during the day? Not many surely. Against that you have all the added admin and set up costs and systems costs to standardise the arrangement, not to mention standardising the ticket prices. I think folks who are coming for a week and can ski on one pass at all the resorts during this week without having to cash in vouchers. On the same day shuttling - sometimes its only a 10 min ride....just like riding a long lift Link to post Share on other sites
Rag-Doll 0 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 sorry, yes of course if you're in town for a week it would be handy not to have to bother getting a new ticket each day. Not sure about the intra-day shuttle though seems like a good way to blow quite a bit of time, go all the way down the hill, maybe wait for the shuttle, load your gear, wait for others to load theirs and wait for the departure time, travel to the next resort and then unload your gear and then a bit of faffing while you wait to get on the gondola to head back up. Hardly a big issue but you can see how people might think that it is all too much trouble particularly as the skiing day really only goes from 8:30/9am to 3:30/4pm. I'm sure some people would use it though and anything that improves the appeal is a good thing. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 There's talkin Oz about there being a common season pass for Perisher (the new name/branding for Perisher/BlueCow/Smiggins - in NSW) and Falls Creek/Hotham in Victoria. There ara a good few hours driving between these resorts, but they could be worthwhile for locals who can spend weeekends at theoir local hill and take a week's holiday at the other. Not sure it'd be worth it in any other circumstances unless you just happen to be a filthy rich ski bum (I wish!!) Link to post Share on other sites
Kraut_in_HongKong 0 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: Jynxx What makes you think that because it is a resort it is safe. Delusions! Nothing has changed, it is a mountain, and nature can kill you. We had an accident last year on the Happo slopes on our first day. I had to bring my daughter to the clinic for a cat-scan. The clinic (I forgot the name) seemed to cater for ski and snowboard people only, the waiting room was full of them. One good point, no more helmet discussions after that day. So far I just know Happo and I like it. Will add my Niseko comment soon.... Link to post Share on other sites
Hotaka Scott 0 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: ger Don't care about ammenities or 'culture'. Just want to ski. Amen brother, amen. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: Jynxx I don't know what makes you an expert in tourism Well I am no expert either Jynxx - but 3 years sat in a Tourism and Events Management Course, and personal experience of ski resorts in 3 countries has given a little insight - and I think JA's comments are sound. Originally Posted By: The Gimp ...anything that improves the appeal is a good thing. Amen! And that is exactly what we have all been discussing. Originally Posted By: MrWiggles I guess the o/s people spend by far the most money per head though. Absolutely - and that goes for every country. You can expand that and read tourists and holiday makers. I see the local family's within a drive of Falls Creek driving up the mountain with thier cars loaded with crock pot and groceries bought from home. They are spending money on a basic apartment and lift tickets, maybe even lessons, but will limit thier day to day spending on resturants etc. The there is me - who has flown over from Perth - baggage limits and border controls on food etc - we will be dining out every night. We spend more. We are more lucrative. so while the Falls Creek wants to locals it wants me and my fellow Perth people as well, because we inject more cash for the time we are there. In Japan the Aussie tourist might be less in number to the local guy, but he/she is likely to want to really live it up and experience the loca delights while there - so will drop a tonne of cash. Yes - the local market is very important and is bein catered to (if Jynxx is right), but the o/s tourist is lucrative because they drop a large load of cash in an extended visit (where a local might visit for the weekend - an o/s tourist might be there for 10 days). Originally Posted By: stemik Lift covers - why none in Hakuba? The reason is that Hakuba is subjected to heavy winds, these will close the access chairlifts a lot sooner than at present if using lift covers As The Gimps says I am not sure the science of that is correct. Not particularly scientific myself, but seems there would be less drag with a cover down than with a fully loaded open lift. Interestingly I recall someone opening covers as the lifts came in and closing them as they came out - loaded or not - so thereby keeping seats nice and dry, and reducing wind drag from open lids... Might be something to that (lids having to be closed that is). Link to post Share on other sites
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