Haydn 0 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I have been checking the temperature differences between Nagano and Hokkaido resorts and it is huge (-3 vs -10). For mid winter, I expected Nagano resorts to be quite a bit colder. Clearly this effects the lightness of the snow. Has anyone got personal observations on this subject? Perhaps Honshu is just experiencing a really warm spell.... Link to post Share on other sites
big-will 7 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I think this season places in Honshu have been warmer than usual, so it is perhaps not typical. Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Also depends where the reading has been taken. The top of Niseko gets -15, but my guess is that those reading for the Nagano resorts are coming from mid or lower mountain. Also, which resorts have you been checking? Nagano is a big place, with some dinky little low altitude resorts, and some big resorts at much higher altitude. There is even quite a difference between some of the higher ones. Also, I wouldn't look at daily comparisons (I assume you are looking day to day), but monthly averages. Don't forget that Hokkaido is quite a bit further north, and so naturally have colder temps. Link to post Share on other sites
nippontiger 8 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Is the "powderyness" of the snow proportional to how cold it is? At different temperatures, different types of snowflakes form - presumably these different types of snowflakes will pack together differently giving a different consistency. Apparenty, just below freezing, plate and star-like crystals form, a few degrees lesss, you get more needles and pillars, go down a few more degrees and you get the plates and stars again. Obviously above a a certain temperature, you will start to get some melt and then theres the effect of the solar radiation, wind scour etc which will make things less powdery, but it might not be as simple as "the colder, the more powdery". Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Certainly at similar altitudes Hokkaido will generally be colder than Honshu. Honshu though has lifts to much higher altitudes than anywhere in Hokkaido so although the base areas may be a little mild, up high you will still find incredible snow quality. Gary in Niseko we frequestly get star fernlike flakes. As they come down they link in with each other forming conglomerates of flakes that are quite large. These conglomerates of flakes are extremely light and fluffy and take awhile to pack down which is why we often have very deep powder off-piste. Link to post Share on other sites
Kingofmyrrh 0 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Japan snow rocks the house. But it is pretty chilly on the top of any of the mountains here... Link to post Share on other sites
gerard 6 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I'm rambling here. ....opps... I don't know much about the physics of snowflakes but someone put up a link or pic of different types of snowflakes a couple months ago and that stuff is interesting. In 25 years of skiing, I've found 'COLDER = BETTER SNOW' to be a generally good rule of thumb but I guess it's a little more complicated than that if you get into it. Of course, high winds suck. Fairly wet snow can be just fine if it's calm and hasn't settled. One common pattern seems to be this: Low pressure system hits from the West, bringing heavy deep wet snow. As the system passes it starts to suck colder air and continued but lighter flurries from the north/west. As for Nagano vs. Hokkaido, like everyone said, you may have to go high for good snow in Nagano (which is fine because the lifts go a lot higher in places like Hakkuba and Shiga) but in Hokkaido the snow is often dry almost right down to sea level. I remember watching the snow pile up over an early breakfast in Hirafu, which is only about 300m above sea level, thinking "Damn, I've never seen such FLUFFY snow in my life!!!" Had to queue for first tracks of course. Shit, since I've already started rambling and most people have stopped reading this, I might as well continue. That's the thing about that Forbes "top 20 snow resorts" list --A lot of places that get the heaviest snow aren't really that cold. When it's really REALLY cold, it's more likely to be clear. --Baker, is bloody balmy compared to Niseko and it rains a lot there too. It gets heaps and heaps of snow, but it's not dry. I'd take Niseko snow over Baker snow for sure. That's the thing about Niseko. There will be no wind and the thermometer will read -12 or -15 but it's just dumping, and I'm thinking "I didn't know it could snow so hard when it's this cold!". I guess it comes down to geography. Relatively far North... Siberia.... the Sea of Japan. It's like that in places like Utah too. Deep and dry. But, yeah, Nagano can be super dry too if it's cold enough, and it's definitely deep. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Ive skied blower powder and snot. Blower is nicer but snot aint bad if it is steep enough. Honshu is huge. For Resort skiing though only Shiga kogen can really hold its own top to bottom for dryness compared to most of Hokkaido. Most of Hokkaido though cant get a huge dump like Hakuba and Noz got though over new years. Different factors cause different effects. When it snows in Hakuba hard it is usually quite dry because the colds are forced to rise so quickly. That said if the sun pops out the lower snow gets much heavier do to lower ambient temps. I can usually blow the snow out of my hand here if it snows. If I can blow it out of my hand then I think it is dry enough. Link to post Share on other sites
Haydn 0 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Just while we're all talking about Sea of Japan and Siberia etc, has anyone ever skied that peninsula of Russia that comes down into the Sea of Okhotsk (Kamchatka Peninsula). Logic tells me it should recieve that same Siberian cold air and moisture the way japan does. The kicker is, the mountains are well over 4000. Its like moving Indonesia into the arctic. Link to post Share on other sites
spook 0 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 there are som heli operations in kamchatka and also some small reorts it seems. $1 lift tickets sound pretty cheap to me "In Petropavlovsk there is a ski lift at Krasnaya Sopka (Red Hill) with 1920-foot lift ascent with a descent overlooking spectacular Avacha Bay. Lift tickets are 25 rubles or less than a dollar. Also in Petropavlovsk is the Edelweiss ski area with a 2400-foot lift ascent and lift tickets of 25 rubles. Drive 30 minutes to Yelizovo and reach the Moroznaya Ski Complex with a 3200-foot lift and lift tickets on weekends of 30 rubles or about $1, and weekdays 20 rubles or about 70 cents." http://www.kamchatkatourism.com/experiences-winter.htm Link to post Share on other sites
quattro 1 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Here is a good video from skiing in Kamchatka http://www.tobiasluthe.de/movie/Kamchatka-MPEG-4-800Kbps.mp4 Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Thanks Quattro, good vid that. Looks like a nice place. Link to post Share on other sites
gerard 6 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Nice video! Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Some friends of mine did ski mountaineering trip to Kamchatka some year back now and although it looked epic they did get caught in a 6 day blizzard. A really awesome remote area that isn't that far from here in Hokkaido. Might have to head up there myself one day. Link to post Share on other sites
quattro 1 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Yea it's not far but getting there looks like an epic trip in it self. Link to post Share on other sites
journey_man 0 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Niseko has nice snow, but for the really light n fluffy stuff you gotta go inland. Niseko snow is positively heavy compared with Kurodake... Link to post Share on other sites
OkemoLoon 0 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Originally Posted By: Fattwins Ive skied blower powder and snot. Blower is nicer but snot aint bad if it is steep enough. Myself and Tsondaboy skied both today in Niiagata. I got sick of the snot real fast so we tried sticking to only north facing lines, all of those stayed dry all day. Link to post Share on other sites
dizzy 0 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Sahoro Resort in Tomamu, Hokkaido has the reputation of the coldest place in Japan. It's definitely the windiest place I've been to in Japan, as windy as a nipple-freezing winter day in Chicago. but nagano rocks with vert and terrain. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 It can't be. Club Med Sahoro with all that body friction must keep up the temperatures. Link to post Share on other sites
Ezorisu 0 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Luck of the draw, I guess. When I went to Sahoro and Tomamu last season and the season before, it was either warm and sunny, or raining and crappy - not cold. Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 luck of the draw is a good way to put it...Ive had great snow and shitty snow at both places (Hakuba and Niseko). We had rain last night so today was crappy with dust on crust Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 where r u just now CB? Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 TB Hakuba. Sat was pretty poor but yesterday was off the hook in the trees Unfortunately I did something to my right leg. nuttin serious but sitting today out. Will be skiing in 2 weeks up here though for the SJ weekend. Hopefully more snow then too for all the resorts in Japan. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Yeah, I'm contemplating going up to Hakuba for the SJ weekend. I'm itching to get out again, I went as soon as I got back from home and had a ball and ever since I've been trying to convince mates to make the trip....I might just have to fly solo again for this weekend. Link to post Share on other sites
c_mo 0 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 just curious, how reliable are the snow-forecast.com predictions for snow. The numbers seem to fluctaute quite regularly (almost hourly). Link to post Share on other sites
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