Going snowboarding in Japan? Prepare to be fingerprinted...

[Yuki's Passion 1]

Figures then. Thats just the way this odd country works. Supposedly my finger print was destroyed 7 or 8 years ago when they quit taking them when you got your gaijin reg card...but highly doubt it. Stupid but there's not much we can do about it...Sure Arudo Debito will take it to court so lets all send him 100 yen for the cause

[Yuki's Passion 1]

BTW, anybody have a greencard for the States? Wonder what that's like and what BS they have to put up with?

[Domokun_72dpi 0]

BTW, Soubs, my whaling comment was just a joke at the timing of the situation.

[bushpig 0]

CB debito is already circulating a petition which is being mostly backed by the Japanese spouses of foreigners living here.

[Fattwins 0]

Ill carry my baby through the Gaijin line next time just to make a point. Even in America they dont seperate the families. If they want to check me fine, I dont like it but I should be able to do it with my family.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

I can see how it must be a real issue for you guys who are permanently living in Japan with Japanese spouses and offspring.

 

My father is British - a 10 pound tourist - emigrated in the early/mid sixties. He has not become an Australian citizen, despite having permanant residency and an Aussie Passport. I would have been mighty ticked if he was shepherded off to the foreigners queue while Mum battled by herself to get the kiddies through the 'we belong here' queue.

 

We have friends in this situation who have been living in Japan for a long time (The entire lifetime of thier kids) and have now moved to Perth. We do not split this family up at immigration into or out of our country. I am sure they are going to be really peeved when they return to Japan, as they do frequently - and they are split up!

[soubriquet 0]

 Originally Posted By: Fattwins

Oh Soubs you need a history lesson as to why those people here. One, they were forced to live here to work in the Japanese factories. Going home means going into poverty and shame. You disrespect them but not knowing that there isnt much choice in going home.

The encouraged Japanization of the world program now sees the grand kids and great grand kids coming back. These people were left high and dry by the Japanese government and are now the lowest form of Japanese. They work in the factories and do all the jobs normal Japanese wont do for themselves. Soubs please read a history book before you post something like that it isnt fair to them.

More resources should go into domestic protection that is what is lacking.

Get off the band wagon.

Koreans and Chinese chose to come to Japan. They are free and welcome to return to their countries. Instead they choose to enjoy the benefits of living in a 1st world nation.

If you want to criticise your government, go to China or Korea, and enjoy your time in gaol.

[bushpig 0]

Soubs. That is just wrong. Forced labour was a huge thing. Forced relocation. Those who did chose to come came when Japan was also ruling Korea and there were more opportunities here than there, but they were still second class citizens. But that is history.

 

Now, those who are here are essentially Japanese, and their families have been here for generations. Where they choose to hold on to their identity, it is for the same reasons I do my Aussie identity. But they live here, grew up here, work here. For them to pick up and go to their parents parents countries, is just the same as for a Japanese person to do it. Not easy. And no incentive anyway when they identify primarily with Japanese culture.

 

I think it is you who needs to get off the bandwagon on this one soub. Too many people spout crap like that without actually understanding the situation.

[Go Native 70]

This article gives a good overview of Korean's in Japan.

 

 

One thing is for sure never believe what Japanese tell you about their own history as the government makes sure they cut out all the bad stuff in their education system. For instance I have never met a Japanese person who knew that Japan had bombed and planned an invasion of Australia.

[thursday 1]

no, they were busy in China

[tsondaboy 0]

And you will find even less Japanese knowing about this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_human_experimentation

 

Still, you can not blame this generation for the crimes of the past.

 

And whats even more stuning is this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiro_Ishii

 

guess who his post war employer was...

 

Cover ups in history don't happen if only one side wishes so, it has to be an agreement from "all" members. So lets not blame only the Japanese government for covering up black points of their history they were and still are being backed up.

 

So maybe is also a good time to think, who is backing them up now in passing the new customs law...

[tsondaboy 0]

From my understanding customs laws are always bilateral agreements.

In the case that a country moves on its own in this mater usually we have sanctions UN votings and the like. I see no other country taking action to protect its citizens rights when entering Japan which probably means that they have already reached an agreement with the Japanese government.

[thursday 1]

what new customs law?

[tsondaboy 0]

the fingerprinting thing is passed as a law I am not sure if customs law is a valid term. Immigrations law maybe?

[thursday 1]

maybe it's an amendment to the immigration ordinance.

 

And a sovereign nation can do what they please.

[tsondaboy 0]

I am sure it can and I am also sure if a sovereign nations moves on its own other sovereign nations take actions against it.

 

For example, USA required visa from some EU members wile others didn't have to and were covered by the "visa waver treaty". EU expects all its members to be treated equally by the US so forced visa requirement to all US officials traveling to EU until US includes all EU members to the visa waver treaty.

Now that we have the new biometric passports, both sides are working on an agreement and a new treaty will be signed by next year I think.

 

In these terms, do you hear any other nation taking actions against Japan?

[thursday 1]

an analogy can be drawn here to the scientific whaling debate. Nations can criticize 'til they're blue in the face and lodge and lodge diplomatic protests, but has it stopped the whaling?

[tsondaboy 0]

yes I do see the analogy but Japan was lets say "permitted" limited whaling by other members of the agreement to stop systematic whaling.

So even though Japan looks likes its on its own is actually permitted by others to do so. So unless a new treaty passes that forbids whaling even for scientific purposes Japan will keep on whaling and will keep on doing so having the tolerance of other nations.

 

Politics are dirty mate, I don't make the rules.

 

(PS: we are drifting far away from the original thread with the whaling issue)

[Oyuki kigan 0]

politics aside, this is messed up. i always get wary about measures like this, because they may only be the first step toward something more expansive and controlling, rather than just a goal unto itself.

 

Tsondaboy, we do get rascist treatment here. The fact that we are called gaijin is the most obvious, but we have somehow accepted this.

Back home in Canada, you don't refer to anyone as and 'alien', and especially not to their face. People have a culture and a history, and we aknowledge that when we refer to them by nationality.

 

But here, you are either Japanese, or you aren't. You are automatically a member of some other, nebulous group of humanity that can't be bothered to be better understood. You cannot speak Japanese or use chopsticks, and if you do they will be suprised.

 

and while that form of rascism is mild, there are more overt forms.

 

Soubs, you are an intelligent man that has been here a while. The zainichi have been and still are treate differetly. Did you know that during the great Tokyo Eathquake (80 years ago?) the koreans were accused of looting and rioting (there was NO evidence to support this) and with fear and anger running high people went to the Korean neighborhoods and murdered the koreans IN THE THOUSANDS.

 

Fast forward to today, when you have Ishihara publicly stating he has fears of 'gaijin' rioting in the event of another disater. How much has changed? he wasn't even taken to task for saying that! A rascist comment like that would end the career of a politcian in my country.

 

and perhaps you haven't heard that zainichi cannot hold government jobs in japan, even though they have been born, raised, and attended university here. There is one case in particular where zainichi girl has applied to become a teacher, but was denied.

 

As caucasians in Japan, we are given very preferential treatment. Perhaps you would have a different opinion if you came here as a Phillipino laborer, or a Chinese girl who came over promised with a good salary as a prostite, only to be confined to a room during her visa, and then sent back to China without pay because she has no way of complaining to the Japanese authorities.

[tsondaboy 0]

Oyuki I cant agree more with you in almost everything you say.

Never said that Japan is a racist free country or non xenophobic. I just said comparing to others is pretty tolerant or as you nicely put it mild. And if all what you Canadians guys say is true Canada would be my second best place to live in the world after Japan.

 

Things for foreigners back in Europe were I come from is far worst than you can imagine. And I will start bashing EU immigration policies by bashing my own country.

There was an article on a newspaper 2 days ago in Greece describing the Greek navy practices when it comes to intercepting illegal immigrant boats coming in from Turkey. Comparing it also with what our fellow Italian and Spanish navy friends do in the same situation...

 

People are thrown into the sea and forced to swim back to Turkey. The official explanation to this was “in order to discourage illegal immigration” (sounds a bit like the Japanese version that bit part hey) Bodies that are washed out on the beautiful Greek island shores get a hole in the ground with a number plate on it.

And this happens with the tolerance (and maybe blessings) of the EU.

 

http://www.enet.gr/online/dspphoto?id=200427

This pick was published in the second most popular newspaper in Greece.

full article here if you can read Greek:

http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text/c=112,dt=01.11.2007,id=27455512

 

My ancient ancestors, that everyone back home takes pride of, would weep if only they could see what Greece has become nowadays.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Oyuki, I was talking about the that the other day. How we just shrug off discrimination like it doesn't matter. With me being white, I have never been on the receiving end of racism in my country so for me when I came here this was the first time it had happened to me. I was well pissed off but strangely just shrugged it off. That would never happen back home, people would never shrug off discrimination as they do here. I wonder why we tend to do this? I guess fighting it would just cause too many more probs, but that was probably what people thought in the UK, US etc 50-60 years ago....kind of shongunai, its just the way it is.

[Fattwins 0]

They can be teachers but only if they do it in their own Korean schools. This is why you get the Korean school system. To become Japanese is a big step you have to give up more than just a passport.

[bushpig 0]

I don't think that is the main reason for the Korean school system FT. I could be wrong, but I think that is more out of a desire in the past to maintain some form of Korean identity.

[Fattwins 0]

Wasnt actually trying to mean that is why. some of the kids there are Japanese.

[indosnm 0]

 Originally Posted By: Creek Boy

BTW, anybody have a greencard for the States? Wonder what that's like and what BS they have to put up with?

I don't but if they are treated anything like Australian permanent residents then probably they'd be treated the same as you with a US passport (on entry) ??