The chop

[sunrise 0]

Hmmmm, surely if baby tarzan wants to be the same as anyone it would be his peers (who are probably unchopped).

 

Personally I gotta agree with keeping it al naturale. If he's taught basic hygiene he'll be fine. If he's the kind of grot that doesn't care about washing himself then maybe it might get a bit grotty. But then he's probably not going to be showering regularly either. Being a kid of yours I can't imagine that happening. An al naturale boyfriend I had told me what a load of crap the hygiene stuff was, and he was certainly clean. I heard a story from a woman about a boyfriend of hers in college whose was gross, but sounds like it came along with his A-hole personality.

 

At any rate, all that aside, he's also going to grow up feeling insecure if he's had it done and all his friends haven't. (not that that in any way the most important reason in favor of leaving it alone).

[daver 0]

or vise versa nes pa?

[mina2 6]

But he's got every right to be pissed if he has had it done to him without his consent.

 

If he is desperate to mutilate himself he can always go ahead and do it. The other way doesn't work so well, does it.

[nzlegend 1]

the "not required" angle is completely baffling!

 

walking around naked protection? yes to a limited degree, the foreskin protects the glans which evolution intended to keep smooth and moist not keratinized and exposed.

 

Foreskin serves a major purpose in the act of intercorse, the glidng motion the of the foreskin reduces friction, the natural penis shaft glides within its own shaft skin covering. This minimizes friction to the vaginal walls and opening and to the shaft skin itself.

 

The use of lubricants is often not so much the womens fault but the cut mans fault, his package can no longer function properly as nature intended it to.

 

Hey lets chafing!

[Ocean11 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by TJ OZ:
O 11 your analogy is wrong. There is no comparison between removing a piece of skin that in this day and age is not required and removing the clitoris.

You missed the point. The analogy was about the ignorance concerning what happens if the unnecessary is procedure is not carried out, not the procedure itself.

clitoris -> penis
foreskin -> dairy farm

Anxiety about how other people look and about how your dad looks is no reason for making permanent changes. Deal with the anxiety, if indeed it actually exists.

Eyelids keep the eyes moist and sensitive. The foreskin performs the same function for the glans.

Kudos to snowglider for recognizing that he doesn't have to do to his son what was done to him. I expect he's probably a bloke who can tell the difference between one snowboard and another too.

[NoFakie 45]

http://www.circumcisionvideos.com/

 

You can watch a documentary about it there.

[69 5]

I find it almost incomprehensible that modern, so-called intelligent people can even begin to contemplate doing this to a kid unless there is real medical reason to do so.

 

Some ways of thinking totally baffle me.

 

Jane, surely you won't do this to your kid?

[scouser 4]

If I had a kind there's no question they would be left intact.

 

I bet the only people defending it here are people who have had it done to themselves and know no different.

[daver 0]

dude, i just don't understand why you and for that matter, the majority of guys that haven't been cut, have to be so self rightious about it.

 

secondly, shame on you for trying to compare snipping a little bit of skin that may or may not really effect a man's life in a huge way (i'm snipped, i don't care) to the horrific mutilation that some of the more extreme varieties of female circumcision entails.

 

but most of all, shame on you for looking at this with an angle of cultural supierority. physical alterations are prevelant in every culture. be it circumcision, lip plates, neck rings, foot binding, tatoos, or breast implants. do you prefer that your girlfriend/wife shave? wear make up? you don't have all the angles, you don't understand the needs of women or men growing up in central africa so you should not take such a cynical stance on a culture's system of beliefs. likewise you should your self rightious genital mutilation rhetoric a rest.

[Ocean11 0]

daver, shame on you for your ignorance and mindlessness. You still don't get the point do you?

 

There's nothing cynical about respecting somebody's right to mutilate themself if they see fit, but drawing a clear line with the individual. What is your poor child going to do if the culture suddenly starts calling for nailing your foreskin to the ceiling and he doesn't have one eh?

 

Shame on you for trying to compare a woman shaving herself with trimming an irreplaceable part of her newborn child off.

 

Knowing things and thinking about things will always be superior to not knowing things and not thinking about things. Live with it.

[mina2 6]

I can't really see people being self-righteous about it - just being more than a bit alarmed at the ease with which this seems to be accepted.

 

I'm confused with some of the messages from the pro-mutilation camp. Aren't some people on here defending the practice because they believe "having it cut off is less cheesy" and "the foreskin is, in these modern times, useless". Seems like a desperate run around to find reasons to condone it.

 

Comparing it to make up and shaving legs is quite preposterous.

[daver 0]

"What is your poor child going to do if the culture suddenly starts calling for nailing your foreskin to the ceiling and he doesn't have one eh?"

 

 

people of all cultures know things and think about things, they just don't think about them in the same vein as you. live with it.

 

as for comparing them, the point was to demonstrate the common trend in societies of physical alterations for the sake of asthetic appeal. now regarding the shaving point, do you think that a women in our society shaves because she wants to or because we as men have decided that this is what is more attractive and pleasing. why do you think that the mental implications are in any way different? the reprocusions for not abiding to social norms are equally hurtfull don't you think?

 

and man, tone it down. you seem like you are trying to be the foreskin champion. you know your energy could be much better spent in a more meaningful cause.

[slimeypete 0]

I've had it done to me, but I won't be doing it to any kid I might have.

 

I really think people should be more enlightened about things like this now than they were when I was a kid.

 

 Quote:

the reprocusions for not abiding to social norms are equally hurtfull don't you think?

Which social normals are you refering to? Some African country or the modern US? What 'reprocusions' are there for not getting it done in the US?

[daver 0]

yeah, i never said that i was going to do it to my kid. i just don't see the need. but at the same time, it really is a none issue and doesn't warrent the type of heat that has developed in this thread.

[slimeypete 0]

 Quote:

it really is a none issue

You really think so? I find that to be quite sad.

[Ocean11 0]

> do you think that a women in our society shaves because she wants to or because we as men have decided that this is what is more attractive and pleasing.

 

Yes I do. Try asking a woman not to shave. Try asking her 20 times. It won't make any difference (in my experience). Similarly, my wife asks me to shave my face and I refuse. She asks me not to shave my head and chest. I refuse. Those are all choices made by the individual, and they're not permanent either. Do you think 'our society' has the women I have known in a vice-like grip determining everything they do, and yet it doesn't have me in a grip about shaving too? Or am I in its grip too?

 

> you know your energy could be much better spent in a more meaningful cause.

 

Like what? Trying to get people who aren't used to using their mind to give it a bit of exercise is a meaningful cause. And don't imagine this is the only cause I'm working on.

 

You're just jealous daver because you can't trap air in your foreskin and then let it out in the bath in a little foreskin bubble. Nor can you ever hope to make frog mating signals with your foreskin. Imagine the comfort that these innocent activities can bring a man in a time of stress.

[daver 0]

"You're just jealous daver because you can't trap air in your foreskin and then let it out in the bath in a little foreskin bubble. Nor can you ever hope to make frog mating signals with your foreskin."

 

i never know you could do such things, but as of now i am jealous.

 

i am glad to hear that you are working on more causes then simply this one, because a little piece of skin seems like small fries when compared to genocide in burma.

[Ocean11 0]

 

That button is your friend, my friend. Here we discuss one topic at a time in general (although beer is permitted to intrude into any topic). We do not generally have to bring Burma into circumcision topics just because that issue also happens to be a Bad Thing too.

 

Perhaps you could learn to form bubbles under your eyelids.

 

I'm off to read a book now. Cheers.

[mattlucas 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Ocean11:

You're just jealous because you can't trap air in your foreskin and then let it out in the bath in a little foreskin bubble. Nor can you ever hope to make frog mating signals with your foreskin. Imagine the comfort that these innocent activities can bring a man in a time of stress.

I know what I'm doing tonight and in the bath tomorrow morning

And here I thought the weekend would be a waste because of the bad weather

[bushpig 0]

Damn! I wish I could do that! And O11 you just reminded me of my favourite phrase: Beer Wench!

[daver 0]

"We do not generally have to bring Burma into circumcision topics just because that issue also happens to be a Bad Thing too."

 

again you have missed my point. my intent was to demonstrate the actual severity of what were are getting all worked up about. but yes, perhaps a little too far from the point.

 

"You're just jealous daver because you can't trap air in your foreskin and then let it out in the bath in a little foreskin bubble. Nor can you ever hope to make frog mating signals with your foreskin. Imagine the comfort that these innocent activities can bring a man in a time of stress."

 

i have seen the puppetry of the penis, so not being able to do a few foreskin tricks is not going to get me that disappointed. i can still do the helicopter, and the hamburger. so i'm ok.

[nzlegend 1]

what about the bulldog?

[soubriquet 0]

My recommendation, me jane, is to take the conservative option. Circumcision is generally unnecessary, and it is not reversible. Leave it for now, and have it done later if needed (especially if she is a girl).

[BagOfCrisps 24]

Definitely agree. Why make the decision for a kid unless it is necessary? Seems bordering on cruel to me.

[bushpig 0]

To chop or not to chop...