Ski industry situation on tv this morning

[SKI 15]

A typical and predictable response of course.

 

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 Quote:

Lift tickets purchased in this country for the last 12 consecutive years has declined. FACT

 

Lift tickets purchased in US, Europe, Canada, Australia in the last 12 consecutive years has increased. FACT

Those may well be facts. No-one is arguing any different from what I can see..... Although the direct comparisons with overseas markets, neglecting to mention the myriad of other factors that might come into play in Japan does seem more than a little simple.

 

 Quote:

SKI, given the quality of the snow, the avaliable ski hills close to billions of people in this country, how would you rate management in this industry ?

I certainly don't think they're all doing a good job, no. I never said that they were. Epecially when you consider the "billions" of people in this country.

 

 Quote:

Frankly, their performance is criminal. Area management are rotten to the core. Collectively they all should bend over there swords.

lost for words there.

 

 Quote:

"... so easy to criticise ..."

 

SKI please tell me where the answers maybe found to make the industry turnaround ?

 

Blind Freddie can see it....

I don't have all the answers. Neither do you, although you seem to think that you do.

 

The main point that I have been making is that none of us here know the "full story" - all of the details, the circumstances, the restraints, the complexities, the realities of the situation.

 

We know what WE want;

We know what WE think might be good, easy solutions;

We know what overseas resorts do;

We know that we can't see much action in regards to resorts making any changes;

But that's about all we do know.

 

As I said, it really is so simple to critisise.

 

By the way, I told you about the dialog that my friends and I have had with some resorts. With all your ranting, what positive steps have YOU taken to try to make any changes?

 

Any??

 

Or it is all just negative, angry outbursts on an English ski forum???

[Ocean11 0]

 

SKI has sat down with his Japanese friends to draw up tips for the better management of the Japanese ski industry.

 

What have YOU done SkiBaka?

 

I'm sure the reason for the increased ticket sales in all the other countries must be because their customers have sat down and drawn up tips and plans. Yes, definitely, that's it. Problem solved.

[SkiBaka 0]

 

Read my earlier posts my friend.

 

SKI do we work together ?

 

You remind me of the many mental giants that I waste my time with everyday ?

 

They actually pay for my advise, amazing is it not. Given they will consider it, except it, but nothing is ever done with this advise.

 

The every people who NEVER actually use the facilities they manage, or the facilities of successful operations abroad.

 

SKI, I am fully aware of Japan's population, speak to a native about the sentence that confused you.

 

Will you be attending Friday's meeting ?

[mattlucas 0]

Calm down children.

 

SKI I think you owe SkiBaka an apology.

[SKI 15]

SkiBaka - perhaps you could also "read my posts" as you obviously haven't.

 

These people pay you for your "advise" do they? And "except" it? What, some of those "billions" in Japan?

 

Sounds like you dropped on REAL lucky there. My friend.

 

Toque - er, I think not.

[cheeseman 1]

I have made my ideas on this matter very clear.

 

The resorts should THINK CHEESE.

 

And a huge new market will open right before their eyes.....

[Davo 1]

SKI you are overdefending the mismanagement which has overall seen the bums on seats plummet. There are obviously factors and trends beyond the direct control of the ski resorts and the ski industry in general. The poor state of the domestic economy, less disposable income, changing domestic demographics, competition from other providers of leisure activities etc.

 

Good management however is about responding to such changes in a positive way. Not everyone in the industry is failing to do this, but given the current state of affairs they're clearly in the minority. Finding out what your existing and potential customers want and then providing it instead of assuming the old ways are fine would be a good place to start.

 

The industry needs to get a lot more foreigners here for starters. Japan is the obvious snow destination for Asia but it seems to me that not much is being done to take advantage of those opportunities. If it can be done in Nisseko why not elsewhere? I'm sure the businesses in that ski town would laugh their arses off at the oft repeated tripe of foreigners being an unimportant niche.

 

Koizumi says he wants to double the number of tourists to Japan, but what's he doing about it? Japan has the attractions but does it have the attitude, marketing skills, flexibility and wherewithall to pull it off? Various countries around the world have been very successful in catering to the Japanese-perhaps Japan could learn a thing or two from them about getting bums on seats.

[Ocean11 0]

YOGURT, a simple question for you;

 

What is the ""full story" - all of the details, the circumstances, the restraints, the complexities, the realities of the situation"?

 

Some people, in their pitiful ignorance, seem to think they can tell why certain aspects of Japan, including its ski industry, are in decline. You however seem to know more.

 

So please go ahead and tell us the specifics. Saying "I don't know" will be too lame for words, although, if I might pretend to some of your formidable predictive skill, your response will be something along those lines...

[SKI 15]

Davo, I don't mean to come across as overdefending the management, that's not my intention. I am just trying to give this some balance that is otherwise lacking, as per my previous comments.

 

Essentially I agree with what you are saying.

 

[NoFakie 45]

SKI

 

Please tell us what you asked for and which resorts have made changes that have led you to believe that your requests were listened to.

[SKI 15]

NoFakie, for a few reasons I'm not going to get into that here (I'm sure that will encourage some childish flames from some quarters, but if thats the case so be it).

 

However, some of the resorts were open to hear ideas (not all of them were), and we did see a few small ideas implemented and were actually kept informed by the resorts.

[Ocean11 0]

Lame, predictably.

 

I've had some of that precious 'dialogue' with resorts about playing music among other things, either directly or through their 'BBS', and the response is always about as clear and useful and well-considered as something that YOGURT might post. As NoFakie says, it's service on their terms, and usually just lip service.

 

Of course some resorts do make an effort - Echo Valley stopped fining snowboarders, stopped charging for parking on weekdays, built some funnables, and started sending out info and freebies - but they still charge for parking on weekends and play crap music. I heard from them directly about some of the mysterious difficulties that YOGURT hints at but cannot define, and believe me, they're trivial. (I've heard quite a few excuses offered frankly by a number of service providers in this country that no self-respecting provider in a normal country would dream of letting slip...)

[miteyak 0]

A success story?

 

Aoki lake seems to be on the right track from trips there this christmas.

 

They have some kind of promotion to entice Korean skiers it seems. Many Koreans around and signs in English, Korean and Japanese. The camp site has opened by the lake now year round, offering camping, car camping or basic or heated hut rental.

 

The sister resort, Kashimari, also does quite well at attracting the foreign/budget market it seemed, with many international sliders on the scene. (their 200 a night bunk/hotspring deal certainly seems to be a winner)

 

It would be interesting to see how well they are doing, and whether their efforts are paying off. The resorts certainly seemed as busy as they ever have been over the last seven years.

[snobee 0]

BBC 'Fast Track' programme this week is out of St, Moritz and focuses on some of these and other issues confronting the ski industry. Although not in depth it presented a few points for consideration.

One point being that the resort industry is diversifying and no longer can(afford to) cater only to the semi/hard core.

Snow/Winter holidays need to be marketed more enthusiastically and catered for.

How many of the millions of visitors to Hawaii go surfing, scuba diving, snorkeling, sailing or even hit the water for that matter. I hazard a guess and say it's the BIG minority.

A winter mountain experience can offer lots - aside from pipes and moguls.

 

Anywayz, Check out the prog.if you can.

[peaker 0]

cool. closed resorts = easily hikable accesable open untracked powder

[Ocean11 0]

Slightly off topic, but relevant to the issue of people in Japan not getting what they want even when they ask for it;

 

A local news topic last night covered the building of another new dam on a stretch of river in a picturesque village in Ehime. The locals were meeting with representatives of The Ministry of Superfluous Concrete Monstrosties, down from Tokyo, for 'an exchange of opinions'. The villagers said "This dam will reduce water quality still further and has no meaning or merit whatsoever" (they should know - they live there). The Ministry stood up and said, "We would like to begin construction of this dam as soon as possible". And sat down.

 

The ski industry isn't going to change anytime soon, and unless the foreign tourists have a fetish for cement, I don't think many more are going to be coming.

[grungy-gonads 54]

That small ski place in Yuzawa - NASPA - does real well with gaijin families. Very much a family place, with high cost hotel in there too, they did quite a lot to appeal to the upmarket gaijin crowd a few years back. From what I remember that came about due to the manager of the resort specifically wanting to make it more "international".

[montoya 0]

Curious about NASPA (since I'm a snowboarder and have never been there), what kind of special services do they offer? I have some overseas (gaijin) ski-guests coming over soon, wondering if I should recommend it or not.

[big-will 7]

Naspa is only a small place, skiers-only and very much a family deal. The place is just behind the hotel, if you take the back road up to Mitsumata to avoid R17 traffic it's right in your face. From what I remember they have childcare, and a couple of New Zealanders there at the ski school.

 

I stayed once there after winning a night - very nice hotel, very friendly staff. They have a bus going from there to the station and Gala every 20 minutes or so which is what I was doing.

 

Actually, the guy who created this very same website was in the main part responsible for starting the ball rolling on that one once the management expressed an interest. Perhaps you could ask him.

[slow 0]

The president of our company is thinking to buy a small ski resort.(I can't tell where it is, sorry.) I think it is too risky because this resort isn't easy access from Tokyo, no onsen, too small to attract skiers and boarders.

But if he decides to start this business, I'll ask you advice. I'm thinking to translate some interesting comments in this topic and send him...

[Ocean11 0]

It sounds a lot like ... Wada Toge to me.

 

Excellent news!

 

Does your company make teleport systems by any chance?

[BagOfCrisps 24]

Well, I know very little on all this apart from what I saw.

 

The slopes were generally less crowded than we were expecting. Weekdays and there were very few people out there generally. Even weekends not too bad, but we actually used them to take it easy more.

 

More gaijin out there than I was expecting too. Everyone I spoke to seem to know about this site and met a few forum members too.

 

[montoya 0]

Caught this today:

 

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/040205/kyodo/d80goo181.html

 

Thursday February 5, 8:19 AM

BizTrend: Ski resorts try to lure customers amid frigid economy

 

The ski industry, which has been another victim of the frigid economic conditions, has started promotional campaigns to get more people back on the slopes.

A white paper compiled last year by the Japan Productivity Center for Socio-Economic Development (JPCSED) estimates that the ski population stands at 10.9 million and the snowboard population at 5.4 million, unchanged for the last several years.

 

Business at ski resorts has been sliding downhill, and as one industry official said, "Even those with enough money are reluctant to spend during the recession."

 

Ski resort operators have introduced various promotional campaigns and those in Gunma Prefecture, which is close to the Tokyo metropolitan area, are focusing repeat customers.

 

The Tambara Ski Park in Numata, north of Tokyo, is selling a 5,200-yen package ticket worth 5,700 yen that includes a one-day lift ticket and a meal ticket.

 

If a customer presents a used lift ticket, the park offers the package ticket at 4,800 yen for an adult on the second visit, 4,500 yen on the third visit and 4,300 yen on the fourth visit.

 

The Kawaba Skiing Ground in the village of Kawaba is inviting people to pay a 500 yen membership fee. They get points when they buy a lift ticket, enabling them to purchase tickets at a discount rate and receive gifts. Around 4,000 members have joined up since the system was introduced three years ago.

 

In June 1999, the "Mount Six" was organized by six places known for spa and ski grounds -- Zao spa in Yamagata Prefecture, Kusatsu spa in Gunma Prefecture, Nozawa spa, Shiga Heights and Hakuba-happo, all in Nagano Prefecture, and Myoko Heights in Niigata Prefecture.

 

They sell common lift tickets and hold regular meetings to discuss the current state and future of ski resorts.

 

Seventeen skiing grounds in the Joshinetsu area, which includes Naeba in Niigata and Manza spa in Gunma, are also offering a joint point system. "It is important to provide hospitality so that users want to come back," said an official at the Nagano Prefectural Tourism Association, which is carrying out the "Ski Kingdom Nagano" campaign.

[Ocean11 0]

A timely and interesting article there.

 

It seems rather misleading though, and quite a lot can be said about the information it contains.

 

First, the JPCSED estimates - twice as many skiers? Are they active in any meaningful economic sense?

 

Some of those offers seem absurd. Buy a membership to get discounts? And receive gifts? It seems that if you pay, you get half price carparking on weekdays and if you go enough times, you win a trip to Hawaii. But, what if the resort itself isn't very good, playing music everywhere and all the other miseries?

 

I never noticed any particular sense of hospitality on seeing the spastic Ski Kingdom Nagano posters dotted about the "Mount Six" when I visited them. The badly drawn characters seemed to be pretty much the main aspect of the 'campaign'.

 

I don't know how well researched this report is (probably not), but if those examples are representative, then there's a lot of sliding left.

 

A 5,200 yen package 'worth' 5,700 yen in Gunma? That's even more expensive than Ehime where they have to make nearly all the snow...

[green 0]

 Quote:

cool. closed resorts = easily hikable accesable open untracked powder

Am I missing something here? (probably!)

If resorts close, and lifts don't operate - -- - no lifts, how do you get up the mountain? Hike? All the time?

Wouldn't that
a) take an age,
suck (apart from the downhill part!)

??

PS Not trying to cause an argument, just honestly don't know