Japan racism 'deep and profound'

[BagOfCrisps 24]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4671687.stm

 

An independent investigator for the UN says racism in Japan is deep and profound, and the government does not recognise the depth of the problem....

 

 

What do you think then?

[NoFakie 45]

"does not recognise the problem"

 

Well some of it is instituitionalized with zainichi (mainly ethnic Koreans born in Japan) not getting the vote and having to carry ID cards. Bona fide foreigners do too, but that's not as big a deal compared to other countries.

 

I don't think there's "deep and profound" racism towards the general demographic on here.

[thursday 1]

I have experienced far far worse in the UK. Japan is small potatoes in comparison.

[2pints-mate 0]

What did you experience in the UK and why?

[thursday 1]

lots of stuff and because I am not white.

[2pints-mate 0]

For example?

 

And if you are Asian, might you miss out on some things in Japan because you look less different?

[thursday 1]

I'll get the examples together for laters. Some real juicy ones, watch this space.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

I reckon the reason that most of us, especially the Brits, agree with the UN statement as it's probably our first time being on the receiving end of it. (most UKers here are prob white I'm guessing). I know thats how it was for me. I dodn't particularly think that my home town has a racist problem, but as it isn't gonna be directed at me (as I am part of the majority) maybe I just dodn't know how bad it actually is. I stand out here and so notice little things that shock me, but I think that us whitey's will have the thinest of thin edges of the wedge compared to some other skin tones.

[Go Native 70]

I think the real problem here is that racism is so deep and profound that most Japanese don't even realise that they are racist. Japanese from the highest politicians to the average guy on the street have beliefs that in any other country would be considered extremely racist but here are considered just a normal way of thinking. This is the scary thing in this country, even the nicest people can quite innocently be shockingly racist.

[daver 0]

just try asking any japanese person even the most benign questions about china or korea. you will be likely disgusted. i was amazed to hear the hate spilling out of the mouths of the people i worked with. educators no less!

[Mantas 3]

 Originally Posted By: thursday

I have experienced far far worse in the UK. Japan is small potatoes in comparison.

From the public or the government?

It's one thing to experience racism from people.
Having it legislated in law from the state is something else.

[stemik 14]

I've been in Japan off and on for 11 years - never have I had any racism directed to me personally.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Stemik, me neither in the "hateful" way with which we associate it from back home. In fact Japanese are probably the NICEST racists!! They are polite and deferential, but either way it still "sorry, no gaijin". I've had that on more than one occassion, but I've always just shrugged it off for some reason. I know of a friend, whose Japanese is spot on, who has been verbally and physically abused by people and on one extreme occassion he had to beat the guy to protect himself. This has never happened to me, although I have been less than politely asked to go home to my own country, usually from drunken, idiot salarymen.

Like what GN said, I agree that most people don't know that there is anything wrong or inflamatory about their comments. Its kinda like speaking to your grandparents, they say all manner of terms thats just not acceptable now but they don't say it in a nasty or derogatory way, they don't know that what they say is unnacceptable. (This is also in part due to the onset of age and its effect on the mind )

[Davo 1]

I think there is a lot of racism here, particularly towards Chinese and Koreans. Most of this is casual racism, by that I mean neagtive racial stereotypes and comments made by people. Casual racism is hardly unique to Japan though. Plenty of casual racists wherever you go.

 

I haven't experienced much overt racism here though, aside from the odd 'gaijin dame' back in the day, and a run in once with a drunken oyaji salaryman accosting me for no reason on the train. I think everyone gets to meet a guy like that at least once

 

The deep and profound bit I'd agree on the official level and the legitimacy that this gives to all the casual racists. The media, in concert with politicians and bureaucrats, has done a good job of demonising foreigners as a homogenous group of potential criminals/terrorists. Far easier to do that than to write well-researched articles or for the officials and politicians to do anything about the real cause of problems.

 

So while I don't think racism is a part of my everyday experience here, I'm happy to see Japan taken to task on this at an official level. I also believe that a lot of Japanese have no idea what racism actually is.

 

Race relations are quite problematic in plenty of countries but less so in Japan because there are basically so few non Japanese here. If the foreign population was a lot bigger Japanese society would struggle massively with the challenges diversity brings.

[samurai 0]

I have a coworker who used to call me gaijin-sensei. I had to ask him to stop about 4 times until he got a clue.

 

does that count?

 

I don't if he's racist as much as he is just a fricking moron. Even the students roll their eyes at him. (then again, most students pretty much roll their eyes at most their teachers anyway.)

 

easy for me to shrug off knowing he won't be a part of my life much longer.

 

I've heard people (foreigners of course) argue that the word gaijin itself immediately reflects racist undertones as the mere use of that word isolates the japanese into some ethnocentric group.

 

The non-bigots with whom I converse generally use language like- Do people in your country...? or- Do americans...? (In japanese, I mean.)

[Davo 1]

 

BBC

Check out the views from people in the street in this article. Not a lot of flipant casual racism in there at all....

 

I do like the shoeshine guy's comment though. Unfortunately, I think he's a bit hopeful that getting Chinese to shine shoes for a 16th of what he charges will solve Japan's demographic woes

 

To be fair there is a bit of open-mindedness there, not bucketloads but a bit nonetheless. Plus all ther negative comments sound as if they've been lifted right out of the newspapers or the mouthsof politicians.

[moloneb3 0]

I think most racism is passed down from parents! I play with my company team and one of the lads had his son there, bout 4 yrs old. So he said to his son, instead of asking my name, say hello to gaijin-san!! I felt like standing on his neck, but realised that it happens everywhere. Instead I felt sorry for the child and the example that is set by his father, automatically creating a division.

 

Anyways, people tend to align themselves in groups. Some do it by race, music, religion, football teams, some ski or snowboard.....this then creates divisions! Unfortunately, I dont see and end to all the racism!!

 

Thats the real pity....I do think though that Japan is a little bit behind the some countries in addressing issues like racism or sexism. In saying that, sometimes we are overly PC in Europe. There should be a balance and respect for other ways and views - both host and visitor!!

[Mantas 3]

I feel sorry for the under 30's living in 2050. That's if they are not underwater by then.

 

[muikabochi 208]

 Quote:

say hello to gaijin-san

At least it was "-san"!
Little things like that get on my nerves as well but many times they are not meant with any bad thoughts... just what they grew up with and the society they are in.

I have never encountered that much racism. Just one or two times when I've had a few scowls and rude comments on a train or something like that.

[daver 0]

racism in japan is certainly more benign than in other countries, but that doesn't mean it is more or less good. it certainly is not physically harmful now, at least as far as the media will let you know about it, but the benign, casual racism here has had a history of turning severely more brutal. not unlike anywhere else, sure, but like everywhere else japan should be held accountable when deserved.

i did my best to avoid the bigots but i ran into them enough for it to not surprise me when it happened.

my japanese friends of course never liked it when it happened either, however even they were capable of having a few gut wrenching ideas about outsiders now and again. by no means were they mean and spiteful, they were just poorly informed by terrible media. but, that one of the places it starts and that's where it can be most corrosive and most disastrous. that's why it should be no more excusable.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Ignorance shouldn't be used as excuse. Moloney is right, racism and discrimination is handed down from parents to children, a look at the divides and problems that occur in Northern Ireland are testamount to all that. Have a close look at the slogans that emblazon the banners and scarves of Celtic and Rangers fans the next time its on the TV and again this is prevalent. These people have no idea why they are shouting what they are shouting but when in the mode of Celtic or Rangers fans, they conform to the stereotypes of the group and wail out these nasty songs. This with there 5 yr old son watching and learning and so the cycle continues. The cycle can only be broken when the ignorance is accounted for and people can see that what they are doing is wrong.

 

(Celtic and Rangers are rival football teams from Glasgow, Scotland whose fans have close ties on either side of the divide in Northern Ireland)

[moloneb3 0]

Whilst racism may be benign in our daily lives, if something happens are we equal in front of the law. There is an acceptance of Westerners here in Japan which I imagine a lot of us on this site are!!!! However, if you are asian (not Japanese asian!) how are you treated, or another race? I have a friend from Jamaica and he was stopped 6 times in 6 months for ID, and 4 other times just for questions! It is ridiculous!

 

I went to a bar one night (didnt know it was one of the girly bars) and it said "No foreigners allowed" in English (and there was no mistakes with L or R's). It didnt bother me that I didnt get in but bothered me because I didnt fit the 'requirement' for that bar . It was also something I cannot change! It was a great experience of frustration and is probably one of the most important lessons of my life. It really opened my eyes to racism and discrimination!!!

 

I understand that most of the people here are really nice and mean no harm! The only thing I see is though, would you like those people to sit on a jury presidinig over your case in court?!? There is also this perception that rising crime and rising immigration are correlated. This cannot be good, especially without fact. Note the more stringent requirements for getting into the country. Subliminally this sends a message that outsiders are "bad news".

[Go Native 70]

Well moloney at least at the moment you don't have to worry about them sitting on a jury because they don't use juries here. The sign you are talking about `No foreigners allowed`　is a perfect example of how racism here is deep and profound. Very few other countries allow open discrimination based purely on race. In this country though it is commonplace and most Japanese wouldn't even see anything wrong with it.

[samurai 0]

I personally have never seen that sign. Not that it doesn't exist, but...

[its-a-clock 0]

I haven't seen it either.

Don't think I'd want to go in a place with that kind of attitude.