Davo 1 Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Seen it once outside a strip club that somewhat ironically was also adertising the gaijin booty that could be seen inside. That's racism pure and simple and should be dealt with by the law. This is what the UN guy is on about-there's no law to prevent that sort of descrimination in Japan. With the new fingerprinting and photo law the authorities have brought in descrimination for Japanese who have foolishly let themselves fall into a family relationship with dangerous gaijins. I can handle being treated like the outsider I obviously am,whatever.. What I can't handle is the fact that my Japanese family will be handled as such by being associated with me when we go through immigration. They're ethnically Japanese (as if the ethnicity bit should matter) and they are Japanese citizens FFS. I hope that this particular issue can be turned into some type of human rights class action suit against the government. Different thread I know, but I see it as all part of the same thing and the powers that be need it rammed as hard a possible down their elitist narrow-minded throats. I don't think Japanese people are particularly racist on the whole, but there seems to be nothing done on the official level to discourage descrimination or support any sort of diversity in a positive way. If Japan wants to be part of the 'modern' 'developed' 'globalised' 'democratic' world, a little more recognition and respect for diversity is due. The goverment should be trying to limit and legislate against descrimination rather than encouraging it. End of rant. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 I have seen this type of sign on more than 1 occassion Link to post Share on other sites
daver 0 Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 the sign is usually on snack bars with japanese girls. not so often when the girls are from elsewhere in asia. so you don't want to go into a snack bar, the sign doesn't affect you. however, what happens when it is an onsen? that happens. also, gyms and apartment complexes sometimes have policies which forbid gaijin entrance. or even worse what happens when you enter an optometry shop and the owner yells at you to leave, you bring the situation to court, the defendant openly admits he hates people like you and the judge sides with the defendant on the terms that as gaijin you could not have understood what he shop owner was saying? that too has happened. recently. Link to post Share on other sites
bobby12 0 Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 No gaijin allowed signs: http://www.debito.org/roguesgallery.html This is an interesting article that discusses levels of crime in japan by gaijin and non-japanese: http://www.jref.com/society/foreign_crime_in_japan.shtml If I remember rightly, it makes the key distinction between a crime (has victim) and an offence (e.g. visa overstay), then goes on to say that if you look at true 'crimes' (not offenses), then Koreans and euro-americans are actually better behaved than Japanese. Quote: If we concentrate on real crimes...here is the real crime rate : # Chinese (0.428%) # Brazilians (0.351%) # Japanese (0.291%) # Russians (0.271%) # Philippinos (0.101%) # Thais (0,051%) # Koreans (0.024%) # Britons (0.021%) # Americans (0.016%) Obviously the rate is based on crimes/person of that nationality. Link to post Share on other sites
midnightcharger2 0 Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 too Link to post Share on other sites
moloneb3 0 Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 About the jury thing, this goes for any country! At the end of the day judges are human too and will read the same papers as the general public. Also, the fact there is no juries here makes me more nervous. I would sooner bet on 12 people than 1!!! One other example is a friend of mine who joined a gym, then stopped for a few months. Then he went back with his girlfriend (both from Germany) and wanted to join. They said he needed to backdate his membership but he refused. There was a special offer for couples, but after some discussion they said the offer wasnt open to foreigners. Pretty ridiculous reason, I think though it was because he wouldnt pay for the previous months that he didnt go!! Irrespective - imagine giving that answer in Canada, US, England, Ireland, or most other countries. Link to post Share on other sites
rach 1 Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 There are no juries in Japan, really? Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 The Japanese legal system is one of the most ridiculous anywhere in the world. As far as I can tell they rely very little on forensic evidence. Pretty much all cases that go to court rely on a confession. The system is well set up to hold someone long enough to ensure you get that confession (regardless of their guilt or not). The judge then really only has the role of sentencing. Link to post Share on other sites
bobby12 0 Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Doesnt surpise me much, its all an old boys club in this country, the old bigots at the top creaming all the money and taking advantage of your average Japanese's naivety. Every week theres another politician getting done for stealing money - but do they ever go to prison or do anything beyond saying sorry? its ludicrous. Link to post Share on other sites
Mantas 3 Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 So how does someone 'become' Japanese? Not in the same way that someone becomes an American or Australian I'd guess. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Originally Posted By: rach There are no juries in Japan, really? There will be after May 09. Link to post Share on other sites
charlotte 0 Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 What is happening then? I have been asked a few times "do you want to be Japanese". File under the "how on earth do you answer that one" folder!! Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Originally Posted By: charlotte What is happening then? The law passed back in 2004 comes into effect. 6 jurors, 3 judges, or 4 jurors, 1 judge. Jurors chosen from the electorate. Are you eligible to vote? guess not. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 They've had huge problems in some test trials with jurors. Japanese being who they are were not really able to make decisions on their own or voice their own opinions and just waited to be told what to say. They really didn't get the concept that they are supposed to weigh up the evidence and make a decision. Plus there was the problem that most thought that if the accused was being charged by the police then he must be guilty. So the whole jury thing will probably change absolutely nothing.... Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 GN, that doesn't matter. It's a huge leap forward in that the law abiding citizens of Japan can take part in the judicial process. Gaijin Japanese permanent residents are not eligible for jury service. That's what I'm getting at. Link to post Share on other sites
oblivion 5 Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Quote: Japanese being who they are were not really able to make decisions on their own or voice their own opinions That is such a sweeping statement.... (who are the "racists" again?) I know plenty Japanese who are very able to make decisions on their own and certainly do voice their own opinions. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 I'll try and find you the report about the mock trials. On the whole oblivion when faced with authority Japanese people generally do as they are told, this is not being racist this is just how it is. Japanese society on the whole is about conformity much more than it is about individualism. Sure you may know some Japanese people who are able to voice their opinions say to you but would they voice those same opinions to their boss or their parents or a judge? Unless they are already in positions of power themselves then I'd doubt it.... Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Well Go Native, I know a couple who can and do voice their opinions to their bosses or peopl in authority. They themselves are not. But, I agree that on the whole there is less of that. Doesn't mean that it doesn't exist though Link to post Share on other sites
moloneb3 0 Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 I think GN's point is a generalisation and there is always exceptions. Generally I think he is right, but of course there are people who are not like this! Also, my experience is what Japanese people say to us gaijins is much different to what they say to native Japanese. Therefore, I would look to see how people behave in Japanese surroundings before judging if they are expressive of their feelings/opinions or not!! Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 um, hang on. I am judging on seeing what they do with or around other Japanese. I am certainly not judging based on how they are when talking to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Mantas 3 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Sorry for side tracking the thread guys but I didn't really get an answer before, and I'm genuinely curious. Can you become Japanese? Is it a race or a nationality? Can you become a full Japanese citizen with all the rights that entails? Link to post Share on other sites
nippontiger 8 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Sure, you can get Japanese citizenship, but even then I dont think you have full rights - eg, you have to give your fingerprints at customs. You probably wont be eligible for certain jobs. You will still be a gaijin to Japanese people. Even if you were born in Japan to foreign parents, you will be a gaijin. Im sure Ive heard Japanese people say you have to have ancestors living in Japan for seven (?) generations before you can be considered true Japanese. Even then, if you skins the wrong colour, I reckon you'll still be gaijin! Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 That is really interesting. With Australia being a 'multicultural melting pot' people officially gain the title of Australian when they take on citizenship. All the same rights and privaleges... But I suppose those that look different or sound different will experience some level of racism/lack of acceptance as an Aussie in some circumstances. At the moment I am concious of those Australians who have been here for yonks (some for generations) who are muslim and wear the hajib (is that the right word)...they tend to marry thier own people - so thier physical ethnicity is preserved, and they dress in a way that is very different to our norm. They stand out - and I would not be surprised in the current world situation if these people experience extreme levels of recism. It is not just in Japan that this happens. Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 hahaha, I can just imagine the jury deliberations here, they will be over in seconds with everyone sucking their teeth and going "eehhhhhhh, so ka!" 100% conviction rate here we come!! Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Actually Gary, while what you say about us foreigners never being recognized by Japanese themselves a Japanese if if we have citizenship is true, I am fairly certain that if we do choose to do that and give up our own nationality, then legally we do have full rights, and don't have to do things like give fingerprints where any other Japanese passport holder doesn't have to. Link to post Share on other sites
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