nori-chan 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 My friend had second abortion last week. She is not married but I think not careful and makes me sad. What about it in foreign country? Many people do or many people against it? nori Link to post Share on other sites
klingon 10 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Seems much too easy to get one here in Japan... Link to post Share on other sites
danz 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 at least you aren't in danger of getting shot if you go for an abortion here.... danz Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Abortion is murder. It's all too common in the UK though. Link to post Share on other sites
kintaro 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I agree w/ Ocean on this one. Is it a ken by ken thing in Japan or straight up nationally legal? Link to post Share on other sites
amandanism 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 it depresses me that in some countries abortion is used as a form of contraception. Link to post Share on other sites
MistaSparkle 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 This is a pretty touchy issue... Are there anti and pro choice camps in Japanese politics like there are in the US? Link to post Share on other sites
MistaSparkle 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by amandanism: it depresses me that in some countries abortion is used as a form of contraception. In Japan, people like sex, how they like beer... nama. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 This one has been debated for years upon years. I know people who have had them people how have given up the child for adoption and people who have kept the child. In each case they all made tough choices and it affected their lives in everyway. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by MistaSparkle: Are there anti and pro choice camps in Japanese politics like there are in the US? Not especially, probably because neither women's rights nor ascetic forms of Christianity are big in Japan. Abortion is also a nice earner for the medical profession, if rumours are to be believed. From what I can gather, the main way in which (religious) morality impinges on medical practice is in the recognition of "brain death". Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Quote: Originally posted by Ocean11: Abortion is murder. Fortunately the law doesn't agree with you ... Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Fortunately? For who? There are plenty of people who think the law may need some sort of review in this area. I realize there are some situations where abortion may be necessary to protect the life of the mother, but for any other reason, is there really a moral argument for it not being murder? All the women I know personally who have had it done have acted like guilty murderers afterwards (not my seed I might add), and I can only assume they had good reason for their feelings. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Ocean - as you say, you can only assume. What is more, I can only assume. It is my opinion that what you and I and every other male thinks on the topic is irrelevant as we are never going to have one nor be in a position to have one. I think that they are very sad events for all involved and I do not envy any woman who has had one. I really feel for them, but can never understand with them. One thing though, I will never judge her for having one. All said and done, I would have great difficulty arguing against the proposition that in a perfect world, abortion would not exist. Link to post Share on other sites
fantastic 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Am I the only one here pro-choice? Or just the only one willing to admit it? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 db, that's completely wrong. Laws are made for both sexes, and morality applies to both sexes too. Also children are made by both sexes and belong to both sexes. So unless having the child would physically kill or completely ruin the woman's health, how can it only be her decision? Also I think men are often in the position of 'having an abortion' and I've seen them agreeing to them too. I can and do judge them negatively for that. I think they're complicit in murder, however hard they try to convince themselves they're not. When it comes to making law about this issue though, the fact that the born have a higher value than the unborn shouldn't be ignored. But in countries that allow abortion freely, I think the balance is way out. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 'pro-choice' is a buzz-word. It doesn't mean shi-it. Link to post Share on other sites
fantastic 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Not so. "complicit in murder" - how utterly ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 The choice bit comes before the child is conceived. It's perfectly plain and obvious. The only other choice after that is whether to bear the child, or murder it. If you decide not to murder it, then there are a couple of other choices open to you about what you are going to do with it. What's with all the shrugging? Have you never thought about any of this before? Link to post Share on other sites
indosnm 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 No one is ever going to agree on this. Though in Japan it seems as though it is used as a form of contraception. The PILL too more than 10 years to be OKed to be used (but not on health insurance) While viagra took a total of six months!! If they brought the pill in full on hospitals would loose mega cash on abortion fees (about 85,000 as a person i know had one) Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 I know a fair share of women who have had abortions, and although not necessarily comfortable with the decision, none have felt like 'murderers'. Perhaps if society tells them they are, they might start to feel it though. I guess, if this happens, it'll be back to a bottle of gin and the knitting needles for some, with a good many of these murderers getting the prerequisite death penalty for their crime. I for one will not start to condemn a huge number of the population as murderers and their partners, doctors friends as accomplices. Their has to be a line regarding at what point abortion ceases to be an option, but the time of conception is not that, and only those with religious convictions can seriously put forward the case that it is. Fantastic, if you didn't notice from my first post, I'm 'pro-choice' (which, for those of you who want to be picky and not accept the term for what it's come to mean in the present day, depicts a stand allowing women the right to 'abort'. If anti-abortionists want to use the term 'pro-life' i'll accept that too, even though plenty of women forced to keep an unwanted fetus might just be thinking their life has taken a rurn for the worse). I would like to add, it's rather easy for men to preach on this subject, because they will never have to make the choice. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 miteyak, that's all wrong too. I'm going to quote you. I guess, if this happens, it'll be back to a bottle of gin and the knitting needles for some, with a good many of these murderers getting the prerequisite death penalty for their crime. That is one choice out of several. Taking a moral stance about killing other humans doesn't make you responsible for others who would try it. Their has to be a line regarding at what point abortion ceases to be an option, but the time of conception is not that, and only those with religious convictions can seriously put forward the case that it is. Why isn't the time of conception that time? What sophistry can you bring forward to suggest otherwise? And let me assure you, I have no religious convictions whatsoever. I think I would have noticed by now if I had. This is a matter of simple logic... If anti-abortionists want to use the term 'pro-life' i'll accept that too, even though plenty of women forced to keep an unwanted fetus might just be thinking their life has taken a rurn for the worse). A lot of people's lives take turns for the worse without them resorting to murder... I would like to add, it's rather easy for men to preach on this subject, because they will never have to make the choice. I'm not preaching, I'm discussing a basic human issue with which I've been personally involved. And faced with the possibility of living with the consequences of my lust, I've accepted the possibility that my life may take a sudden turn for the parental, and financial pain. I've also seen other men devoting some of their life to women they don't like very much in order to be responsible. It can be done, if only you choose to... Link to post Share on other sites
night-mare 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 My first post, so in at the deep end! I'm completely with miteyak on this. But abortions in Japan do seem way too easy to get, and are like someone else said sometimes used as a form of contraception which is no good. Link to post Share on other sites
snowboard_freak 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 I don't think that abortions are a good thing at all. Because they aren't. However, not everyone thinks like this. So i think its good that the choice is there. I would never want to have to make such a choice though. Link to post Share on other sites
barok 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 pro-choice I used to think that all abortion was morally wrong and evil, but now I know better. regarding murder. . . I don`t think abortion is murder, as life doesn`t begin at conception. It is not until a certain age that a foetus could even begin to survive on the most basic level (breathe and eat by itself, regulate body temperature, etc.), and something has to be alive before you can kill it. and sure the line is fuzzy between what is life and what is the potential for life. If you believed what fundamentalist christians believe, you would be committing murder every time you wasted sperm - they are more alive than a foetus in my book - capable of autonomic movement, posessing their own machinery for aquiring and metabolising fuel, capable of living (although not for long) outside of the human body. I think your logic is skewed Ocean, how does a womans life being at risk change something from murder to not murder. When you kill someone to protect your own life, unless that person is willfully trying to kill you or cause you grave bodily harm, (and even in some cases where they are) you can still be charged with murder, and hence be called a murderer. you also don`t mention anything about rape or incest, which I think is cold, if nothing else. But whatever, I am not trying to pick a fight with you, I just thnk you have the whole murderer thing wrong. I think most women who have abortions regret having them on some level, but are relieved on another level. I also strongly disagree with the whole abortion as birth control thing. I think in Japan, women have it rough when it comes to the whole sex/abortion thing. I think most women who face this kind of situation, have been sexually subjugated in some way or another. I don`t think they intend to have unprotected sex followed by an abortion, but that they are pressured by their male partners into both having unprotected sex, and into having an abortion. I mean who would choose that as a sensible option? That`s just a guess though, maybe I`m missing something. Link to post Share on other sites
kintaro 0 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Waaaaaaay too heavy. Sorry folks, but on this subject, Kintaro has left the building! Good luck ps- I might read in from time to time to see if Cheeseman can find an angle into this one. Link to post Share on other sites
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