Niseko vs Hakuba

[damian 0]

At last, a spirited description of Niseko lines. Cheers Ger (and Creeky), you pointed out some good bits for sure, besides just the dry snow.

 

I like Ger's posts but I'm putting him on my grey list. People like me need to fear those with a modest voice of reason. I find it threatening.

 

(ps- I'm wasting key stroked here. But the only reason I posted what you quoted above was as an example of a panoramic photo that is lacking for Niseko. I didn't post to highlight that side of the mountain being good)

 

FT - I watched the clip again and yes, there is a production flavour to it for sure, makes a big difference. Probably also explains the funny sounding commentary.

 

What about that clip from Mitch at Snobeds all those years ago?

[Mantas 3]

Originally posted by Fattwins;

 Quote:

For mid level riders most people will feel challenged enough, like you have pointed out.

FT Wouldn't that account for the majority of the skiing, snowboarding population?

 

Hakuba- STEEP.

 

Niseko-FLAT.

 

I think we get it.

 

After all this talk it better be bloody steep when i get there!

[Mantas 3]

Oh yer.Was that chick in the onsen topless?

[Ocean11 0]

I have an off topic question. How do the trees in Strawberries compare with the lift-accessed trees at the top of Nozawa that used to be off-limits but that most sensible people got right into? Can somebody who knows both answer in detail? It would be a comfort to me to know.

 

I had some very happy times in those trees.

[Fattwins 0]

from what ive been told the open quad one are close to the same. also do to the high elevation the snow there is always good.

[damian 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Mantas:
Oh yer.Was that chick in the onsen topless?

Well if she wasn't, you'd have to ask why not.

Hakkers isn't that overwhelmingly steep. Some spots have a bit of steeps and some have a more. Relative to Niseko, the mountain environment in Hakuba is steeper and much bigger. 'Out of bounds' has lots of steep.

Are you doing a Niseko-Hakkuba back to back trip? My younger bro is a good boarder. Last year he went to Niseko "great snow, not challenging enough terrain". He left Niseko and went directly to Hakkuba... and it rained the whole time. Poor guy.

So long as snow and weather conditions are average or better, you'll have a blast in both a places. I wish I was going to Hakuba this winter.

[mattlucas 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Ocean11:
I have an off topic question. How do the trees in Strawberries compare with the lift-accessed trees at the top of Nozawa that used to be off-limits but that most sensible people got right into? Can somebody who knows both answer in detail? It would be a comfort to me to know.

I had some very happy times in those trees.

Strawberries is steeper than the top trees at Nozawa
The trees at Nozawa were almost flat and even on my fats I couldn't get enough speed to turn. Could only go straight and that was a struggle.

Nozawa remains one of my favorite ski hills in Japan though for reasons other than the top trees.

This argument keeps coming up because newbies always come on here and ask us questions about Niseko and where to go. It gets annoying.

With all these comparisons people coming to Hakuba are going to be disapointed. The resort runs are not that steep.
But the backcountry which that video showed and even further back beyond that area is the best I'd seen. But some people are content skiing on boring runs.

[damian 0]

ooooooo, god damn, I just remembered this....

 

I saw Toque at Niseko skiing down one of the steeper pistes near Hanazono and he crashed arse over tit! Twice!! I was at the base of the run and we had a chat when he got there. He blamed it on the telemark rig he was on that day.

 

I call bullshit. I say it was too steep for him

 

I rode in the top trees at Nozawa once and no, they are not steep at all. But they look nice.

[Fattwins 0]

they are an average of 25 degrees and that is what niseko averages.

[mattlucas 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by db le spud:
ooooooo, god damn, I just remembered this....

I saw Toque at Niseko skiing down one of the steeper pistes near Hanazono and he crashed arse over tit! Twice!! I was at the base of the run and we had a chat when he got there. He blamed it on the telemark rig he was on that day.

I call bullshit. I say it was too steep for him

I rode in the top trees at Nozawa once and no, they are not steep at all. But they look nice.

You're thinking of my friend Erik or maybe the other Matt that I was also there with. They were both learning how to Telemark
I have never been on a telemark rig

[damian 0]

Damn! I thought one of them was you. I remember Eric and Matt and yer, it was them now you mention it.

 

One of them had ripped the sole off their alpine boot.

[Fattwins 0]

when toque falls itds usally a slow speeds and very funny.

[mattlucas 0]

Not that I don't fall of course

But yah I'm the other of two Matts that were hanging out up there with you

[snosurf 0]

What's the obsession with steep terrain (for boarders anyway)? Don't get me wrong, I like a nice, steep challenging mountain, but....

 

Does the terrain really have to be super steep every day, everywhere you go in order to have fun and not 'get bored'?

 

No. Use some innovation people. Practice riding switch. Look for little hits, natural jumps, rollers, even natural jibs and rails...pick a ridiculously hard line through some obstacles. Practice riding really fast. Practice riding really fast switch.

 

I rode Niseko Hirafu/Annapuri for 4 weeks straight last season. I must've done every run at least 10-20 times and visited every side-country and backcountry area possible. Did I get bored? No. Did I complain it was too flat? (ok, a few times when my slow-arse board got bogged down when the snow was really deep...but not much!)

 

I'm not trying to say that everyone on here is complaining that Niseko is too flat to have fun at. But for those of you from this school of thought, get some creativity.

[bushpig 0]

Hang on. If it is about having fun (and I don't think you will disagree) then if someone finds it too flat for their enjoyment and much prefers steeper terrain to get their hit of adrenaline or fun, then why should they go to a flatter place? Do they have to defend a flat place or refrain from bagging it if it doesn't fit their idea of fun? Despite the Niseko bagging, most of the pro-Hakuba peeps have always said (and you will find it written many times on these forums) that Niseko is a fun mountain but not to their liking when it comes to their preference for terrain. Telling them to get some creativity is missing the point. Maybe they do like doing all those things but on steeper mountains and would quickly get bored with doing them on flatter slopes, when they know they could be on steeper ones in another place.

[damian 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Toque:
Not that I don't fall of course
But yah I'm the other of two Matts that were hanging out up there with you

After the week staying there I remember which Matt you were. It's just that telemark crash thing happened before I had met any of you for more than a few minutes in the lodge and so now a few years later couldn't remember who was in that pair.

Wasn't that the trip when the "Go America" hit in stawberries was featured?

[damian 0]

Hi Snosurf - you point is fair, but it only applies to people who are attracted to the style of riding you mention (hits, jibs, jumps, all that stuff).

 

My girl and I hike and ride loads of low gradient terrain. If I had my way we would be on steeper stuff much more often but last season it was not be. So we made our own fun (even without the powder). But it was not my preference. This year we will ride more steep stuff like she ended last season riding. She is not into hits and jumps, but after a long hike I took her down a 45 degree couloir and she liked the technical aspect of controlled small radius turns on difficult snow and tired legs. At the bottom 25 degree run out slopes, she just slide past really nice rolling hits and banks like they weren't even there. I am a bit the same. I used her as an example because it highlights how different people see different things on a mountain. Hell, last season I have to pay mountain guides to come ride the things I like with me. I knew a few people to snowboard with but none to share my adventurous ambitions with. We all dance a different dance.

 

Keep in mind, I am not talking about groomed run resort riding. Different story. Low gradient pistes are fun for 30 minutes of each season. That's it. I had to coach my girl through weeks of it and it did my head in. In fact I rode switch most of those days to like you suggest.

 

And its not just about the gradient of the terrain but also the sustained intensity, the variation, the sheer size of the terrain. Without a big set of mountain faces and peaks there is only so much you can do. And lots of people don't just do it just because its fun, they do it to progress, a bit like rock climbing. I am not even a very good snowboarder, mainly because I spend more time with my board on by back than on my feet. But being a good rider is not important to me. This example is much more extreme than needed, but I know a guy that can ride down the thing below and yet can't even do a 360 (his words "what's the point of a 360?"). He and I climbed and rode something waaay (waaaaaaaaaaaay) more gentle at the end of last season and over a beer afterwards we had a talk about this very topic. I wouldn't go calling him unimaginative on a mountain.

 

But all said and done I agree with you, if you can't find some fun on slopes with good snow then you got problems. Jesus, 3 years ago on this very forum there were laughs going on about a crew of us in Niseko that spent way too long taking our boards off and racing each other down the flat parts in Hanazono tank-commander style. I even pioneered the snowboard head-stand, like 1960's surfers used to do.

 

[Fattwins 0]

creative eh umm.... Having ski bummed and done the creative side of things ill say this. If I cant ski what I want to ski in a day i usally go home or stay in the lodge. did it last season with toque and cb when we couldnt ski the goods. sat in the lodge not sking jack cause why waste your time.

 

ill ski low angle stuff if the trees are tight.

ill ski low angle stuff if there is a killer drop somewhere.

 

I will not pay to ski low angle stuff though ive done enough of that over and through my learning curve. it totally bores the living heck out of me to ski pimples

[Fattwins 0]

uh db its too big!

[damian 0]

I just shrank it

[bushpig 0]

not to mention too long. (go-slow striker)

[damian 0]

bugger, I keep forgetting about my go-slow workers protest strike.

[Ocean11 0]

Thanks for the replies on Noz. I enjoyed wallowing about in those trees.

[Fattwins 0]

you ust know by now that noz has more than that oh so much more than that.

[Mantas 3]

 Quote:

Originally posted by db le spud:

Are you doing a Niseko-Hakkuba back to back trip?

Yes Mate. I've decided to put this Niseko vs Hakuba thing to bed for good.

I'm spending a lot of my own time and money doing this research for you guys so I hope you all appreciate what I'm doing. It's the last thing I want to be doing in Feburary beleive me.